So what the hell is a survivor ?

[Belair62]

Bait shop open for business again.

[Schonyenko2]

Unrestored, unpainted, rusty, and crusty around the edges.= Cumby. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
Bait shop open for business again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys just love to stir the pot....this shold be good for 3 or 4 pages http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

wilma

[VintageMusclecar]

You mean this???

http://www.thespoof.com/sitepics/celebs/hatch.jpg

or this???

http://jerseycool.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/steph_1_lighter.jpg


http://www.collider.com/uploads/images/category/survivor_logo.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MosportGreen66]

What better way to help a thread than post pictures. I agree with the above. My idea of a survivor is original paint, untouched engine compartment/undercar/interior and it hopefully retains its original components.

My old '69 Z - (yes I corrected the master)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1969%20Z28/CarFiles033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1969%20Z28/CarFiles076.jpg

My old '66 Vette original owner car:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1966%20Corvette%20L79/Convertible1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1966%20Corvette%20L79/DSCN0018.jpg

tag from the spair tire
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1966%20Corvette%20L79/tire5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/1966%20Corvette%20L79/tire2.jpg

The local Maroon '69 Z I posted photos of:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/burgandy%201969%20Z28/P1010001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/burgandy%201969%20Z28/P1010006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/burgandy%201969%20Z28/P1010016.jpg

Cars that come to mind include Jack's '70 Z28 or KP's old green '69 Z28. I think Chuck and Darren have good photos of both.

[69LM1]

Better would be answers to the following:

1. What should the minimum traits be? (#'s major, minor, paint)
2. What should the maximum traits be? (chalk marks, "caution" sticker http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
3. What level of restoration/repair be? (sheet metal, consumables (( wtr pmp, alt, belts))
4. Should there be "levels" of survivor?

[Dave Rifkin]

Do you hurt the cars survivor status if you clean it up? No paint or bodywork, no new seat covers or anything like that, just clean it up with a degreaser or something along those lines.

[m22mike]

As long as you leave the original dirt and grease that came with the car ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Like the crud around the ball joints ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif That might be worth some points ?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Mike

[njsteve]

Does this qualify as a survivor (or do I for having survived driving it at speed?) Only 7,900 original owner, miles. One of one, magazine project car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Or do I have to wait another decade, or two?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/nk15268/fornt.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/nk15268/engine.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/nk15268/int.jpg

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as you leave the original dirt and grease that came with the car ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Like the crud around the ball joints ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif That might be worth some points ?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah , and an inch of gak on the 40 year old crossmember holding a power glide!! that's what I call survivor. Let's see photos of who's got the biggest crud on their ball joints!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Denis]

I think my "li'l ole lady" 67 RS/SS 350 Camaro qualifies as a survivor. Even the license plates and frames are the originals from the selling dealer:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5460.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5462.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5466.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5468.jpg

[Charley Lillard]

Hey Hey Hey....put that away......

[68ys8030]

Is this the car that was at the GM nationals at carlisle 06?
if so... what a great car !!!!! steve

[ss427copo]

Uhhh.....I think these would qualify.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/tn_P1010046_JPG.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/tn_P1010023_JPG.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/nhra1060sc/tn_Copy20of20P1010089_JPG.jpg
Whattya think?

Jeffx2...maybe 4 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Xplantdad]

Denis' Camaro rocks!


Hey Jeff M. tell us more...

[396/425blr]

i will go one futher. on my 62 bel air survivor which was from an estate sale, i cleaned the ashtray but gently replace the half smoke cigar neatly back in its original position http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif. dennis

[olredalert]

------Dont have a survivor. Cant keep my hands off stuff. As much as I like and appreciate them, Im the wrong guy to have one.........Bill S

[427king]

Unfortunately the "you guys rock" phrase survived the 70s..

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my "li'l ole lady" 67 RS/SS 350 Camaro qualifies as a survivor. Even the license plates and frames are the originals from the selling dealer:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5460.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5462.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5466.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/Pavillions%202006/Thumbnails%20091606/tn_DSCF5468.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]


We have been waiting for that one at the camaro nationals. That is an amazing car, any plans to head eastward for a visit in say June 22-24 ? Great car and owner.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately the "you guys rock" phrase survived the 70s..

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

I kinda like it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda like it.

[/ QUOTE ] Groovy then man. Rock on.

[Denis]

[ QUOTE ]
We have been waiting for that one at the camaro nationals. That is an amazing car, any plans to head eastward for a visit in say June 22-24 ? Great car and owner.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Steve. Thanks for the kind words but sorry, no, no plans to do the nationals again any time soon. Maybe when they have a west coast version?

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have been waiting for that one at the camaro nationals. That is an amazing car, any plans to head eastward for a visit in say June 22-24 ? Great car and owner.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Steve. Thanks for the kind words but sorry, no, no plans to do the nationals again any time soon. Maybe when they have a west coast version?

[/ QUOTE ]

We are working on a couple of things and that possibility exists. I will keep you posted. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JQ]

I would like to think my 93 year old grandfathers 55 is a survivor. He had it painted this horrible green in 1980.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0094.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0097.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0095.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0100.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0101.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0102.jpg

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
Better would be answers to the following:
1. What should the minimum traits be? (#'s major, minor, paint)
[ QUOTE ]

Born in driveline

[ QUOTE ]

2. What should the maximum traits be? (chalk marks, "caution" sticker http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )[ QUOTE ]


Untouched since it rolled off the line,period.-no fluffing,all original parts (rebuilt when ever possible) excluding rubber and fluids.. IMO Denis's car is a benchmark camaro http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Late BrakeU2]

The Dana L72 of Mini trails-1968 Honda Z50AKO Slant guard High Bar,100% original excluding one service.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/LateBrakeU2/hibarK02.jpg

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0094.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't get any better than that! 93 year old granfather's pea-green 6-banger '55 Delray!

[JQ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/jquin_2006/tn_IMG_0094.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't get any better than that! 93 year old granfather's pea-green 6-banger '55 Delray!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks...He bought it used in 58 and was the only car he ever owned. The car is basically a strip out, no radio, three on the tree, straight 6, one paint job. Original color is Ivory White....

[olredalert]

-----JQuin,,,While lightly optioned you cant say it is without options as it has the Delray interior and overdrive just for starters. Cool five-five........Bill S

[427TJ]

And a Bel Air trim spear on the front fenders. And radio delete.

What's that round gauge in the dash for?

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]


What's that round gauge in the dash for?

[/ QUOTE ]


manifold temp, lets you know when your tinfoil wrapped lunch has been reheated. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[JQ]

[ QUOTE ]
-----JQuin,,,While lightly optioned you cant say it is without options as it has the Delray interior and overdrive just for starters. Cool five-five........Bill S

[/ QUOTE ]

Show's how much I know...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JQ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


What's that round gauge in the dash for?

[/ QUOTE ]


manifold temp, lets you know when your tinfoil wrapped lunch has been reheated. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost... It's a magnetic thermometer....

[Seattle Sam]

How about this shiny one-owner 307 Nova? Only the block has been resprayed, when the original cam went flat. And it looks like the master cyl, hoses, and battery (and tires) have been replaced. Does that mean this is not a survivor? Otherwise paint, interior, glass, all are original and in great shape.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/sbesser/69%20Nova/Besser258836678-03pic03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/sbesser/69%20Nova/Besser258836678-03pic07.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/sbesser/69%20Nova/Besser258836678-03pic08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/sbesser/69%20Nova/Besser258836678-03pic10.jpg

[Zedder]

Sam, if that is all that is done to the car it would be considered a "survivor" by the trademarked definition. It has to be judged to be 50% unrestored in 3 out of 4 categories - interior, exterior, chassis and mechanical (underhood). A much more difficult award to win is the NCRS 4 Star Bow-Tie award for unrestored cars. The Nova would fail one star due to the engine repaint.

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
The Nova would fail one star due to the engine repaint.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Nova would fail one star due to the engine repaint.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


Nice Nova Sam!

[olredalert]

-----The steering wheel is on upside down!!!........Bill S

[Unreal]

[ QUOTE ]
-----The steering wheel is on upside down!!!........Bill S

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but the wheels are turned...maybe there's a corelation. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
-----The steering wheel is on upside down!!!........Bill S

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the car is upside down but the wheel is correct. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[olredalert]

------Geez Steve,,,I turned my head upside down and Ill be darned if you arent right!!!! It would take a Mopar guy to point that out......Bill S

[L34Pace]

At what point does the survivor become a restoration project? I picked this L65/M38 factory a/c car up recently. Original 63 Champaign paint thats thin and rust breaking through on the quarter wells and lower front fenders. The headliner and vinyl top are toast. Do I leave it alone or start the restoration dance. It does have all the docs down to the original dealer paper plate but isnt all that rare of a car all in all.

[L34Pace]

The engine compartment seems fairly original and obviously untouched. The mileage shows 67K miles and supposedly original.

[L34Pace]

The interior needs a good scrubbing but should be able to save everything but the headliner.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
The interior needs a good scrubbing but should be able to save everything but the headliner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, another neat old SURVIVOR!

[JIM]

Whose are the Impala's that you posted pictures of. Just curious I took the same pictures when I had that collection offered to me several years ago in Phila. I could not make a deal as no one had a straight answer on any of the titles. Jim

[L78M22Rag]

[ QUOTE ]
At what point does the survivor become a restoration project? I picked this L65/M38 factory a/c car up recently. Original 63 Champaign paint thats thin and rust breaking through on the quarter wells and lower front fenders. The headliner and vinyl top are toast. Do I leave it alone or start the restoration dance. It does have all the docs down to the original dealer paper plate but isnt all that rare of a car all in all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correction, yours IS rare to find in that original condition! They're only original once!

As a spectator, I'd give your car a gooood look-over before I spent time looking at a restored car. As a buyer, I'd pay you more for the car as it sits now than after you painted it. Personally, I'd replace the headliner and the vinyl top and leave the rest alone - rust and all.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]

Correction, yours IS rare to find in that original condition! They're only original once!

As a spectator, I'd give your car a gooood look-over before I spent time looking at a restored car. As a buyer, I'd pay you more for the car as it sits now than after you painted it. Personally, I'd replace the headliner and the vinyl top and leave the rest alone - rust and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's way too clean to restore...I love looking at cars like that!

[ss427copo]

Dunno Jim, Somebody posted the pictures on one of the Chevy Forums I found. Damn....are these for sale? Did they sell? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm not far from Philly.

Jeffx2 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

That is a survivor!
I believe that percentage rule should be called just that- "The car is 25% restored" NOT a survivor.

Keep the Camaro the way it is, wax up that rust for as long as you can. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[L34Pace]

OK, thats what I'll do. Top and headliner and wear the surface rust with a badge of honor. I hope I have paint left after the buff and wax http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It seems when I touch something it snowballs! I'll just have to listen to my wise mothers advice "don't pick at it" ha ha.

[Steve Shauger]

Hi Pat,

The million dollar question is should I leave alone or restore. Ultimately it is your choice, however once restored all historical data is lost. As you know the build process was very unique based on build date, plant, options and model. This being the case the more unrestored examples left as is the better it is in defining standards for restorations.

Now if a car has been abused and subject to the elements then it probably has little historical data or significance. I would fluff the car up enough without being invasive in the process (make it the best it can be as is).

If you decide to restore it, document as much as you can during the tear down process. This information is very valuable. Another option is to participate in our Vintage Camaro Certification process (have it documented) and then have it restored. This is what LV did with his Dana car last year. That car was a real hit at the nationals last year. Presently it is being restored by the SCW.

BTW we would love to see the cars at the Camaro Nationals @ Carlisle

From what I can tell from the pics it looks awesome.

[427TJ]

The next Hot Trend in '69 Camaros: non-SS/Z stockers! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/Y-Net%20Photos/69350Camaro.jpg

Make mine a 327/PG with wire wheel covers and belted whitewalls. (But I'd take this one in a second.) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[ORIGLS6]

Damn, that's a cool car! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/sbesser/69%20Nova/Besser258836678-03pic03.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda partial to this one too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif