Value of an Original Crossram Intake

[SuperNovaSS]

Does anyone have a ballpark value of an original crossram intake in unmodified bare condition? I have not seen any for sale since the market was swamped with the repros. Also, have the repros gotten any better? The ones I saw a few years ago were not great.


Thanks,


Jason http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Really, nobody?

[Nova Jed]

Ricks First Gen Camaro's had a forum on the crossram last year at the GM Nationals and they stated why the repros weren't that great. They aren't supposed to be because of keeping the market pure. Too many good aluminum welders out there making fakes. They had a lot of the popular manufacturers of the crossrams like Edelbrock,Offenhauser and the GM liscensed HeartbeatCity crossram on display. Very infromative about it's history. Also stated what to look for on a fake. I do remember that it was stated that the Offenhauser was the closest to the original out of all of them and that was because the intake plenum had a little bit better distribution of fuel and air. I am not an expert on any of this so I have no idea of a value, but can say that I have seen a whole entire setup with a tag of 20k on it up at Carlisle a year beforehand. Not sure if all the parts were there or correct or original restored? Just letting you know what I had seen. Hope that helps a bit?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Thanks for the reply. That is helpful.



Jason

[Jeff H]

I haven't really been following much activity with the crossrams lately. But I would imagine an original GM crossram manifold would still bring in the $10-14K range depending on condition. Last I remember, complete setups were in the $17-25K range. I don't know if anyone else knows of any real sales lately.

[SuperNovaSS]

Jeff,


Thanks for the reply. I have one I am trying to confirm is original. Although it looks good on the shelf, it would be nice to see it on someone's car.


Jason

[JChlupsa]

send me some pictures of it> is it apart where I can see both top/bottom of both halfs??

[SuperNovaSS]

Jeff,


I emailed you some pics. I will send more in a few days.


Thanks,


Jason

[SuperNovaSS]

Here are some pictures of the intake. Any input will be appreciated.


Thanks,

Jason

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram001Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram002Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram003Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram004Medium.jpg

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram005Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram006Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram007Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram008Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram009Medium.jpg

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram010Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram011Medium.jpg

[iluv69s]

I can tell you what i can see from the pics....

It is hard for me to tell from these pics..maybe you could post a few more.....but this looks original to me...but if you could post a few closer pics of underneath the top plate on the machined surfaces where the 2 manifolds bolt together...also, the side edges of the top plate between the intake bolt holes...I own one repro xram(just for comparison) but, I have not yet seen the heartbeat city repro, but the repro top plate I have has the date code in a different location than all the originals...

so..based on what I see so far... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

if you can post some close ups...I can give you a better idea...

[NCGuy68]

If thats a Repop or Clone, someone did a DARN good job of it. The Winter's snowflake looks perfect. The casting dates are open to conjecture, but they appear to be original.

I"am sure some of the X-Ram experts will chime in.

[SuperNovaSS]

Thanks guys. Here are a few more pictures of the areas I think were requested. I plan on sending the intake out to have it authenticated. I just wanted to make sure there was nothing obvious that jumped out before I went to the trouble and cost of doing so. Thanks for all the input.


Jason http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram012Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram013Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram014Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram015Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram016Medium.jpg

<img src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram017
Medium.jpg">

[iluv69s]

Hey Jason...I am no expert on x-rams...I'm just comparing your pics to other original units...I have an NOS xram top plate...It is dated exactly the same day as yours!!!

I also have a used lid that is dated one day prior to yours...Upon reviewing my xrams, it seems that the intake lids that are dated in this time frame, have the date stamped in this same area...atleast on the day of your intake and one day prior.I have 2 intakes whose lids are both dated one day apart in Dec. 68...and the dates are on the other side of the underneath of the intake...opposite the vacum hole...and the repro that I purchased for comparison is dated one day prior to yours(just like my other original), but the date code is actually in the wrong spot...it is locted same as the 68 dated intakes...Wow...Did you get all that?

Anyway, your date is very similar to mine..I will try to post a pic...

As for the machined surfaces...the repro I have seems to have small swirl marks where it was machined with a small type bit..or cnc machine? All the origionals have more smooth surfaces and barely any visible lines...on the edge of the top...If you look more on the side just below the carb flange...the originals all seem to have been grinded or finished off abit with some sort of a machine that maade vertical lines...these lines continue around much of the edges of the top of the originals...kind of like they were trimming off the extra flash after the mold...The repro I have has no marks whatsoever....i hope that helps...if you can post a pic of the edge just below the carb flange, ill tell you what I think...and Ill try to post some pics soon too...for comparison s sake...

But do remember...I have not seen one of heartbeats intakes...the repro I have is from the other guy......Does anyone have any pics of the date code on the Heartbeat unit to compare??

[SuperNovaSS]

Wow, you know your crossrams. Are these the machining marks you are talking about?



Thanks,

Jason

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram019Medium.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram021Medium.jpg

[firstgenaddict]

Those are from cleaning up casting flash with a belt sander...

[iluv69s]

Hey Jason...yup those are the marks I was speaking of....The repro that I have does not have them at all..

Not that my opinion really matters, but Im convinced 99.9% its real....

One other thing to look for are very small stamped numbers near the winters logo and the casting numbers...apparently they are inspection stamps...You have probably already checked Wayne Guinn's site, but he has photos of these small numbers there...typically a number '7' about a quarter inch tall or 3/8's inch tall... If you have not, please check his site...HE is THE expert on these intakes!!

heres a link http://www.guinns-engineering.com/Documented%20Components.htm

As far as value???????Un fortunately the value has surely dropped, as I saw complete setups in the 20k range a few years ago...now??? Probably get just about half...although I suspect REAL dated carbs would make the value of a whole setup go up considerably as I do recall a set of NOS carbs selling for 12k...apparently, the carbs are much easier to tell the repros than the intakes..I am probably the most upset about the repros, because I bought a handful of these original intakes over the years... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I know someone that bought one recently in the 5000.00-5500.00 range.

[SuperNovaSS]

Unfortunately, I do not have the original carbs. The carbs that came with it are non original style replacements. I've already talked with Jerry Macneish about having the crossram inspected. You his opinion carry more or less weight than this Guinn's Engineering?


Thanks,


Jason

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
I know someone that bought one recently in the 5000.00-5500.00 range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Charlie, Was that for just a bare intake?? or a complete set up with original carbs?? I'm getting sadder
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Its probably time to sell all my rare stuff before they come out with everything repro...(if they dont already)

I cant imagine in 10 more years when all these repro intakes, distributors, alternators, etc. actually look real old...and resurface as originals...its actually already happeneing everywhere....

[SuperNovaSS]

I do not see the "7" but do see various small stamping in various areas of the intake. The is a small spade stamping by the lower intake part number which can be seen in the first set of photos I posted. Would Jerry Macneish be a good choice to have varify the intake as original?


Thanks,


Jason

[Charley Lillard]

It was for a bare intake.

[iluv69s]

Hey Jason...I did not know Jerry authenticated parts also...but if he documents it as original, it does not matter if it is or not...I believe his word is like gospel in the Camaro world...I like how Wayne Guinn posts the parts he has documented on his website for the whole world to know its real...

Jerry has written a few books on the Camaros...and Wayne has written a book on the z-ram/JL-8 type stuff...so who is more expert??????? I dont think it matters...either wpould probably work..Good Luck and let me know if my opinion was correct,ok?? Thanks, Max

and thanks Charley...that makes me feel a little better...very little though...

[SuperNovaSS]

Yes, I asked Jerry and he said he would inspect the intake. I plan on having him inspect it. I will let you know what the outcome is. Thanks to everyone for there input, even you Charley http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I'm surprised you did not ask if you could have it.


Jason

[Charley Lillard]

Can I have it ?

[SuperNovaSS]

Nice. No. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif



Jason

[SuperNovaSS]

Jerry wrote to me today and said the crossram is on its way back to me with a certification http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Jason

[Nova Jed]

Congrats! I am glad to have seen the pictures.

[SuperNovaSS]

Jed,

Thanks for all the help via PM. Thanks to everyone for the help. Now I have to decide what to do with it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nova Jed]

Build a car around the intake!

[SuperNovaSS]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram003Small.jpg

Thanks again everyone. I think the intake will be for sale soon as I do not have a car to put it on.


Jason

[John Brown]

Watch who you sell it to, they could "clone" that certificate and sell it for big bucks too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Good thinking. That is why I did not post a picture of the whole certificate. Does anyone know the best source for replacement carbs for this intake? I am toying with the idea of making it complete before selling it. The carbs that are currently on it are nice but totally incorrect.


Jason

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/super-novass/Crossram004Small.jpg

[SuperNovaSS]

On EBay. Reserve is $9500. Members get free shipping. I'll also throw in the carb fuel lines, Y block, and linkage(not sure if its correct).

Cross Ram on EBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Original-Cross-Ram-Intake-68-69-Camaro-Z28-DZ-302-Z-28_W0QQitemZ250225567408)



Jason

[SuperNovaSS]

Its ending on EBay today. Happy Easter everybody!


Jason