Movie: Wal-Mart : The high cost of low prices

[notstock71]

Has anyone else seen this movie? I saw it the other night. It goes into some very specific details on how much damage Wal-Mart is doing on the economy. It goes from the low wages for employees and Wal-Marts encouragement of the employees to go on state aid to the sweat shops they buy goods from. I was in shock about the violent crimes at their stores and them acknowledging the problem but not wanting to spend money to prevent it. Their CEO made 27 million in 2005. Wal-Mart set up an employee assistance fund for when bad things happen to an employee such as a house fire. Employees (already strapped for income) donated 5 million to it, the company gave $6000. There is a big part on the effects on small towns, running the mom and pop stores out of business. Other topics are abusing tax incentives, fines for multiple counts of water pollution and their efforts to identify and fire the employees who want to unionize. I could go on all day about this movie but I HIGHLY recommend watching it, I just ordered it from Amazon, $12.97.

[Keith Tedford]

A local town put the chase on them when they wanted to set up there. I believe they shut down a store in south-western Ontario after it unionized. Greed at its finest. As much as possible, we deal with local Mom and Pop stores.

[427TJ]

My family avoids "Mao-Mart" at all costs.

[Salvatore]

Ah you Union guys are all alike! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif I love the place.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I believe one of the New England states won't let them build.

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah you Union guys are all alike! I love the place.


[/ QUOTE ] Sam, Im with you on 100% on this one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[agtw31]

i used to date a lady that runs a photo lab in one of their stores.

they sent her to bentonville,arkansas for manager training,and they have their own amusement park there.

she wasnt allowed to tell me anything else,or her butt would be fired.

she said their security would rival the CIA's.

they see and know everything.

they do start you out making crap money,but if you stick it out,they take care of you.

[Salvatore]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah you Union guys are all alike! I love the place.


[/ QUOTE ] Sam, Im with you on 100% on this one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Chuckie, I would not let anyone know you agree with me! May be a BAD thing for you!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[BARN FIND]

An "Electrician" that is not in the IBEW...thats a new one on me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Schonyenko2]

He's kidding. Note the roll eyes gramlin.

[427king]

I wonder whos getting the profits from the "movie"?? Maybe walmart doesnt want to become GM, cant blame anyone for that.

[BARN FIND]

Sorry, my bad http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

I guess I owe you all a beer now http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[GRB]

Dollars are votes and the American people have elected W-M. Maybe we should just cast out their votes and make the people shop at govt. owned and operated stores. Higher prices, even worse service and the requisite, eventual shortages. Yeah, that's the American way!

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
Dollars are votes and the American people have elected W-M. Maybe we should just cast out their votes and make the people shop at govt. owned and operated stores. Higher prices, even worse service and the requisite, eventual shortages. Yeah, that's the American way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Immediate Satisfaction from low Prices doe's not provide Long Term Fiscal responsibility........Why should we pay and live with sub-standard Chinese Junk, so a Corporation can make more Profit......Short Sighted Mentality only Feeds the Problem and sends more Jobs overseas....My $.02

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Immediate Satisfaction from low Prices doe's not provide Long Term Fiscal responsibility........

[/ QUOTE ]True, as a whole, but the other side of the coin are the folks that can't afford to shop elsewhere, and that' number is growing every DAY...figure in fuel/drive time and the fact that Wal-Mart normally does undersell any other competitor...ask most folks in that situation, and they don't call it "immediate satisfaction" they call it "survival".

In case you don't know, the area where Wal-Mart has it's roots (northern Arkansas/southern Missouri) ain't exactly the most economically *blessed* part of the country... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
..Why should we pay and live with sub-standard Chinese Junk, so a Corporation can make more Profit

[/ QUOTE ] Its really simple, anyone that feels walmart is not a place for them to shop should buy thier next Samsung plasma TV from Mom and Pops for 500.00 more than walmart and feel like they really "stuck it to the man".

[ORIGLS6]

Speaking from a Manufacturing standpoint, the two worst business decisions you can make are:

1. Do business with Wal-Mart.
2. Don't do business with Wal-Mart.

Very difficult and demanding customer.

[firstgenaddict]

The problem with sending everything to be manufactured in other parts of the world is that eventually the foreign countries realize that they have to have environmental protections and worker protections like we have in the US... then the prices begin to rise on the imports... I read the other day that we can expect 10-20% increases for Toys and other "low end goods" from China.
They are destroying their own environment to an alarming degree... their water supplies are diminishing greatly as well... China is going to have a major problem with finding enough water to supply the industries in their country in the future.
Then we will be in a world of crap... no manufacturing here and higher prices than we had when we had manufacturing here.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
..Why should we pay and live with sub-standard Chinese Junk, so a Corporation can make more Profit

[/ QUOTE ] Its really simple, anyone that feels walmart is not a place for them to shop should buy thier next Samsung plasma TV from Mom and Pops for 500.00 more than walmart and feel like they really "stuck it to the man".

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to buy from locals whenever possible. I might spend a few dollars more but it is gratifying when a hardware store owner says "thank you" and you know he means it because you're supporting him personally. On the other hand, "add to cart" is one of my favorite things to do on the computer. The Man will win in the end.

By the way, Oswald acted alone.

[427king]

Ill bet some walmart exec is sitting out there somewhere saying "how come those SYC guys dont care so much about pollution and the environment when they are driving their gas guzzling smog emitting copos, that are painted with all those toxins and chemicals ,and that have repro parts made in China" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[427TJ]

Uh-oh Chuck, now you're exposing one of my many double standards!

PS: I will pick up the "baby" at the "hospital" on Friday.

[Salvatore]

WOW Chuck its gettin hot in here! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[427.060]

Everyone talks like WalMart is the only store that sells the import made junk. The same peolpe that won't shop at WalMart don't have a problem shopping at Macy's and paying $100 for a shirt made in Indonesia. What about stores like Home Depot, Eckards, Kroger and the other large chain stores? You don't think they put Mom & Pop stores out of business? If you don't like WalMart, that's fine but don't come up with the BS stories about them selling import junk and hurting other businesses as your reason.

My rant for the day.
James

[Salvatore]

Chuckie, You are a trouble maker!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Dog427435]

My wife won't walk through the doors of Wal-Mart - they have built 4 stores, one in each direction, near us in the last 5 years. The toll this has taken on local small business and Mom & Pops has been astounding. Progress - I don't think so. It's all about the dollar - what about quality and service?
The following article is about Wal-Mart and Snapper - it's a bit long but well worth the read!



The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart

By: Charles Fishman


What struck Jim Wier first, as he entered the Wal-Mart vice president's office, was the seating area for visitors. "It was just some lawn chairs that some other peddler had left behind as samples." The vice president's office was furnished with a folding lawn chair and a chaise lounge.
And so Wier, the CEO of lawn-equipment maker Simplicity, dressed in a suit, took a seat on the chaise lounge. "I sat forward, of course, with my legs off to the side. If you've ever sat in a lawn chair, well, they are lower than regular chairs. And I was on the chaise. It was a bit intimidating. It was uncomfortable, and it was going to be an uncomfortable meeting."
It was a Wal-Mart moment that couldn't be scripted, or perhaps even imagined. A vice president responsible for billions of dollars' worth of business in the largest company in history has his visitors sit in mismatched, cast-off lawn chairs that Wal-Mart quite likely never had to pay for.
The vice president had a bigger surprise for Wier, though. Wal-Mart not only wanted to keep selling his lawn mowers, it wanted to sell lots more of them. Wal-Mart wanted to sell mowers nose-to-nose against Home Depot and Lowe's.
"Usually," says Wier, "I don't perspire easily." But perched on the edge of his chaise, "I felt my arms getting drippy."
Wier took a breath and said, "Let me tell you why it doesn't work."
Tens of thousands of executives make the pilgrimage to northwest Arkansas every year to woo Wal-Mart, marshaling whatever arguments, data, samples, and pure persuasive power they have in the hope of an order for their products, or an increase in their current order. Almost no matter what you're selling, the gravitational force of Wal-Mart's 3,811 U.S. "doorways" is irresistible. Very few people fly into Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport thinking about telling Wal-Mart no, or no more.
In 2002, Jim Wier's company, Simplicity, was buying Snapper, a complementary company with a 50-year heritage of making high-quality residential and commercial lawn equipment. Wier had studied his new acquisition enough to conclude that continuing to sell Snapper mowers through Wal-Mart stores was, as he put it, "incompatible with our strategy. And I felt I owed them a visit to tell them why we weren't going to continue to sell to them."
Selling Snapper lawn mowers at Wal-Mart wasn't just incompatible with Snapper's future--Wier thought it was hazardous to Snapper's health. Snapper is known in the outdoor-equipment business not for huge volume but for quality, reliability, durability. A well-maintained Snapper lawn mower will last decades; many customers buy the mowers as adults because their fathers used them when they were kids. But Snapper lawn mowers are not cheap, any more than a Viking range is cheap. The value isn't in the price, it's in the performance and the longevity.
You can buy a lawn mower at Wal-Mart for $99.96, and depending on the size and location of the store, there are slightly better models for every additional $20 bill you're willing to put down--priced at $122, $138, $154, $163, and $188. That's six models of lawn mowers below $200. Mind you, in some Wal-Marts you literally cannot see what you are buying; there are no display models, just lawn mowers in huge cardboard boxes.
The least expensive Snapper lawn mower--a 19-inch push mower with a 5.5-horsepower engine--sells for $349.99 at full list price. Even finding it discounted to $299, you can buy two or three lawn mowers at Wal-Mart for the cost of a single Snapper.
If you know nothing about maintaining a mower, Wal-Mart has helped make that ignorance irrelevant: At even $138, the lawn mowers at Wal-Mart are cheap enough to be disposable. Use one for a season, and if you can't start it the next spring (Wal-Mart won't help you out with that), put it at the curb and buy another one. That kind of pricing changes not just the economics at the low end of the lawn-mower market, it changes expectations of customers throughout the market. Why would you buy a walk-behind mower from Snapper that costs $519? What could it possibly have to justify spending $300 or $400 more?
That's the question that motivated Jim Wier to stop doing business with Wal-Mart. Wier is too judicious to describe it this way, but he looked into a future of supplying lawn mowers and snow blowers to Wal-Mart and saw a whirlpool of lower prices, collapsing profitability, offshore manufacturing, and the gradual but irresistible corrosion of the very qualities for which Snapper was known. Jim Wier looked into the future and saw a death spiral.
Wier had two things going for him: First, he had another way to get his lawn mowers to customers--a well-established network of independent lawn-equipment dealers that accounted for 80% of Snapper's sales. And Wier had the courage, the foresight, to take an unblinking view of where his Wal-Mart business was heading--not in year 3, or year 4, but year 10.
Wier traveled to Bentonville with a firm grasp of the values of Snapper, the dynamics of the lawn-mower business, the needs of the dealers, the needs of the Snapper customer, and the needs of the Wal-Mart customer. He was not dazzled by the tens of millions of dollars' worth of lawn mowers Wal-Mart was already selling for Snapper; he was not deluded about his ability to beat Wal-Mart at its own game, to somehow resist the price pressure. He was not imagining that he could take the sales now and figure out the profits later.
Jim Wier believed that Snapper's health--indeed, its very long-term survival--required that it not do business with Wal-Mart.
Every Snapper lawn mower sold anywhere in the world comes from a factory in McDonough, Georgia, a small town 30 minutes southeast of Atlanta. Coils of raw steel arrive on flatbed trucks every day at the old, nondescript building; brand-new fire-engine-red lawn mowers leave every day, loaded in 18-wheelers. The facility looks undistinguished, but it is energetically trying to defy the conventional wisdom about manufacturing in the global economy.
The Snapper factory has had an invigorating decade. Ten years ago, it produced about 40 models of mowers, leaf blowers, and snow blowers; now it makes 145. Today, robots do the welding, lasers cut parts, and computers control the steel-stamping presses. Productivity is three times what it was 10 years ago, and the number of people working here, 650, is half what it was.
Indeed, the productivity of every factory worker is measured "every hour, every day, every month, every year," says Snapper president Shane Sumners, who walks the 10.5-acre factory floor with comfort and familiarity. "And everybody's performance is posted, publicly, every day for everyone to see." It's a lot like Wal-Mart--which measures the number of items every checkout clerk scans every hour. Some of Snapper's dramatic productivity improvements, in fact, seem to come almost directly from the Wal-Mart playbook. These days, the Snapper factory operates in Wal-Mart time. It must, because it operates in Wal-Mart's ecosystem.
Ten years ago, at about the time Sumners came on board, Snapper had 52 regional distributors. It uses no distributors now--the company runs four regional warehouses of its own and sells directly to 10,000 independent dealerships. Ten years ago, in part because of the complexity of the middleman distribution system, Snapper carried a huge quantity of inventory. It paid to manufacture and ship thousands of lawn mowers--worth tens of millions of dollars--without quite knowing when they would be sold. Now planners come up with an ideal level of inventory for every model, for every region of the country, based on things like historic demand and the weather. The goal is to make sure every customer can get the mower he wants--while making absolutely the smallest number of lawn mowers.
Production at the Snapper factory is rescheduled every week, according to the pace at which mowers sell. A computer juggles work assignments and balances the various parts of the assembly line. The main manufacturing line for Snapper's entry-level walk-behind mowers--with 28 people--was recently charged with producing 265 lawn mowers in an eight-hour shift. The group hit the mark exactly. That's a new lawn mower, from loose parts to sealed box, every 109 seconds. "It's all a matter of seconds," says Sumners.
It's not hard to make a cheap lawn mower. A cheap lawn mower feels flimsy, sounds louder than it has to, and even when new, requires a mysterious, frustrating combination of choke, priming, and pulling to start. The cutting deck of a cheap mower is stamped from thin sheet metal. Making a high-quality lawn mower--even in 109 seconds--requires attention to detail and constant improvement, which seems surprising for a machine that doesn't evolve that much.
All Snapper machines, from the simplest walk-behind to the most elaborate riding mower, are painted one color: what Shane Sumners calls "Snapper red." In the factory, the finished chassis of riding mowers coast along slowly, dangling from an overhead conveyor as they approach a 20-foot-long pool of red paint. The conveyor track dips low, and the mowers glide down into the pool and completely disappear beneath the surface, then rise back up, gleaming red, before heading for a pass through a curing oven.
It's not quite as simple as dip and bake, however. Each mower is electrically grounded as it hangs from the overhead conveyor, and a slight positive electrical charge runs through the 16,000-gallon trench of paint. "So the paint is attracted to the metal and builds up on the parts and sticks very effectively and evenly," says Sumners. The process is monitored every hour--from the speed of the conveyor and the temperature of the ovens to the pH of the paint--along 115 parameters. "If you control the process," says Sumners, "you will get a good paint job."
Snapper technicians start every riding mower before it leaves the McDonough plant. At the "hot start" station, a man wearing ear protectors squirts gas into the fuel tank and oil into the crankcase, pulls the starter cord, and brings the machine to life. He runs through all the gears, checks speed, engine performance, the mounting of the seat. The engine is given just enough fuel for the "run in." If the mower passes all the tests, the man sucks the oil back out and sends the mower on to be boxed.
As Sumners watches, one of the riding mowers takes two pulls to start, then comes to life with a rough growl. In the blink of an eye, the technician shuts it down. "Did you hear how that sounded?" asks Sumners. "It's not right. That's a bad one." The mower is shunted off to be inspected and properly tuned if possible. "If we didn't," says Sumners, "that mower would have gone to a customer."
The Snapper factory started making riding mowers in 1951. It is unadorned and old, but it is old in the sense of solidity and use. There is nothing tired about it. More significant, there is nothing sentimental about it. This factory isn't here out of some misplaced sense of economic loyalty to U.S. manufacturing. It's here because it makes Snapper-quality lawn mowers at a competitive price.
Snapper's factory hums with discipline and focus and urgency. Even with no products at Wal-Mart, a company like Snapper has to compete psychologically, has to keep the price gap between the big-box lawn mowers and its lawn mowers rational. If it did not, its potential slice of the market would get smaller and smaller.
Sumners has to spur his factory on with the same tirelessness as if it were supplying Wal-Mart--the efficiency of every factory worker measured every hour of every day--because Wal-Mart sets the pace, even if you're not working for them.
Jim Wier is 62 years old, with a youthful twinkle despite a thatch of white hair. He is a solidly built man who dresses casually. He is comfortable with himself. Wier, who until the summer of 2005 ran a group of lawn-equipment businesses that approach half a billion dollars a year in sales, is confident, direct, and unprepossessing. He mows his own lawn. "I don't want to hire a service," he says. "I still love to cut my grass."
Wier is much like Snapper's customers. "When we do surveys of our customers, they like to cut their grass. And they want a good piece of equipment to do it. We're designed to give you the best quality of cut. We have full rollers on the riding mowers, to give that nice striped look on your grass, like on the baseball fields. It makes you feel proud of the home you own. Proud of your lawn. The neighbors walk by, they say, 'Look how good the yard looks.' "
Wier doesn't really think that a $99 lawn mower from Wal-Mart and Snapper's lawn mowers are the same product any more than a cup of 50-cent vending-machine coffee is the same as a Starbucks nonfat venti latte. "We're not obsessed with volume," says Wier. "We're obsessed with having differentiated, high-end, quality products." Wier wants them sold--he thinks they must be sold--at a store where the staff is eager to explain the virtues of various models, where they understand the equipment, can teach customers how to use a mower, can service it when something goes wrong. Wier wants customers who want that kind of help--customers who are unlikely to be happy buying a lawn mower at Wal-Mart, and who might connect a bum experience doing so not with Wal-Mart but with Snapper.
And so in October 2002, with a colleague, Wier kept an appointment with a merchandise vice president for Wal-Mart's outdoor-product category.
"The whole visit to Wal-Mart headquarters is a great experience," says Wier. It really is a pilgrimage to the center of the retail universe. "It's so crowded, you have to drive around, waiting for a parking space, you have to follow someone who is leaving, walking back to their car, and get their spot. Then you go inside this building, you register for your appointment, they give you a badge, and then you wait in the pews with the rest of the peddlers, the guy with the bras draped over his shoulder."
Normally, meetings between Wal-Mart buyers and people from supplier companies take place in the legendary meeting rooms just off the vendor lobby. These cubicles are simple to the point of barren--a table and four chairs, and 30 minutes to make your case. "It's a little like going to see the principal, really," says Wier.
In this case, Wier says, both he and the Wal-Mart managers "had a feeling that this would be an important meeting." So Wier and his colleague were scheduled to visit the vice president in his office. Sitting on lawn chairs.
"The meeting started with the vice president of the category saying how it was clear that Lowe's was going to build their outdoor power-equipment business with the Cub Cadet brand, and how Home Depot was going to build theirs with John Deere," says Wier. "Wal-Mart wanted to build their outdoor power-equipment business around the Snapper brand. Were we prepared to go large?"
Talk about coming to the table with different agendas. Wier was in Bentonville to pull his mowers from Wal-Mart's stores. The vice president was offering a greater temptation: Let's join hands and go head-to-head against the home-improvement superstores.
Which is when Wier said no.
"As I look at the three years Snapper has been with you," he told the vice president, "every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up. We're at a position where, first, it's still priced where it doesn't meet the needs of your clientele. For Wal-Mart, it's still too high-priced. I think you'd agree with that.
"Now, at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money. I could do that and not go out of business. But we have this independent-dealer channel. And 80% of our business is over here with them. And I can't put them at a competitive disadvantage. If I do that, I lose everything. So this just isn't a compatible fit."
The Wal-Mart vice president responded with strategy and argument. Snapper is the sort of high-quality nameplate, like Levi Strauss, that Wal-Mart hopes can ultimately make it more Target-like. He suggested that Snapper find a lower-cost contract manufacturer. He suggested producing a separate, lesser-quality line with the Snapper nameplate just for Wal-Mart. Just like Levi did.
"My response was, we would take a look at that," says Wier. "The reason I gave that response was, it was a legitimate question. In my own mind, I knew where I'd go with that"--no thanks--"but at that kind of meeting you at least have to be willing to say, I'll investigate." And that was it. "The tone at the end was, We're not going forward as a supplier."
No lightning bolt struck. Except that Snapper instantly gave up almost 20% of its business. "But when we told the dealers that they would no longer find Snapper in Wal-Mart, they were very pleased with that decision. And I think we got most of that business back by winning the hearts of the dealers."
Snapper was successfully integrated into Simplicity, which in 2004 was itself bought by Briggs & Stratton, the company that makes many of the engines in Snapper and Simplicity mowers. Simplicity and Snapper operate as independent divisions, and Wier remained CEO of both until last summer, when he resigned to join the private equity firm Kohlberg & Co. In McDonough, business is strong. Shane Sumners plans to add a second assembly line for both walk-behind and riding mowers.
One serious hazard to Wier's strategy is that independent lawn-equipment dealers face all the same pressures that have killed, for instance, many independent hardware stores and
toy stores. "That is a legitimate question and a legitimate concern," says Wier. "I think we have a part in that outcome. Can Snapper, as a major supplier, continue to supply [the independents] with great product, and a product different than you can buy at Wal-Mart?"
"I believe Wal-Mart has done a great service to the country in many ways. And it may be that along the way, they've driven some people out of business who shouldn't have been driven out of business."
Wier says, "I'm probably pro-Wal-Mart. I'm certainly not anti-Wal-Mart. I believe Wal-Mart has done a great service to the country in many ways. They offer reasonably good product at very good prices, and they've streamlined the entire distribution system. And it may be that along the way, they've driven some people out of business who shouldn't have been driven out of business." Wier wasn't going to let that happen to Snapper.
Wier had determined to lead Snapper to focus on quality, and through quality, on cachet. Not every car is a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry; there is more than enough business to support Audi and BMW and Lexus. And so it is with lawn mowers, Wier hoped. Still, perhaps the most remarkable thing is that the Wal-Mart effect is so pervasive that it sets the metabolism even of companies that purposefully do no business with Wal-Mart.
And the power and allure of Wal-Mart is such that even Jim Wier, the man who said no
to Wal-Mart, a man who knows all the reasons why that was the right decision, has slivers of doubt.
"I could go to my grave, and my tombstone could say, 'Here lies the dumbest CEO ever to live. He chose not to sell to Wal-Mart.' "

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]


PS: I will pick up the "baby" at the "hospital" on Friday.

[/ QUOTE ]


Neat! You better share! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[427king]

If the reason people dont like walmart is the fact they put Mom and Pop out of business,then they must not shop at Home Depot either,let alone the internet . You know we've become a throw away society.Not because of the Walmart mower prices [actually sears has 99.00 mowers so avoid them too.] Its the fact that everyone that works on everything nowadays considers themselves a "professional",and charges 100.00 to look at an item [that already is more than a NEW mower !!!!]and give an estimate,and 85.00 an hour thereafter. Of course that doesnt mean a "paltry" 85.00 for each hour they actually work, its what a book tells them to charge for a repair,anyone knows if a book gives 2 hours flat rate its probably a 1/2 hour job,netting the "professional" more like 400.00 an hour for time actually worked , thats the real reason noone can choose to repair anything and prefer to buy cheap and throw away ,its easier and more economical.

[Mr70]

I heard Walmart is actually a subsidiary of Paypal. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard Walmart is actually a subsidiary of Paypal. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Walmart could swallow Ebay/Paypal whole if they wanted to.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
If the reason people dont like walmart is the fact they put Mom and Pop out of business,then they must not shop at Home Depot either,let alone the internet .

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a great point...Wal-Mart isn't the only business to sell out to all the cheap products coming out of Asia...they're just unfortunate enough to be the lightning rod!

The Chinese are literally moving into *all* manufacturing markets...heck, one of our life insurance providers here @ work has started offering CASKETS from China, at 1/2 the cost of the cheapest steel caskets from any other supplier. Last I knew, they couldn't keep them in the warehouse because they were selling so fast...:p

[427king]

They are making caskets now because they feel they wont get many returns on them..... They still cant make a pulley that spins straight,but damn they make a good Generel Tsos chicken.

[southernfriedcj]

[ QUOTE ]
they make a good Generel Tsos chicken.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they could just figure out a way to make food that didn't leave you hungry 30 minutes later.

[Salvatore]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[redvetracr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they make a good Generel Tsos chicken.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they could just figure out a way to make food that didn't leave you hungry 30 minutes later.

[/ QUOTE ]

where is the percentage in that??

[427king]

They say there is so much Mercury in the Tuna sushi rolls that if you place two of them close together on your plate they become one.

[GRB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dollars are votes and the American people have elected W-M. Maybe we should just cast out their votes and make the people shop at govt. owned and operated stores. Higher prices, even worse service and the requisite, eventual shortages. Yeah, that's the American way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Immediate Satisfaction from low Prices doe's not provide Long Term Fiscal responsibility........Why should we pay and live with sub-standard Chinese Junk, so a Corporation can make more Profit......Short Sighted Mentality only Feeds the Problem and sends more Jobs overseas....My $.02

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But what does that have to do with WM and the fact that they are the people's choice? Do you want to take away yet another choice in America?

I love the hypocrisy of humans. Show me one person who says, "I think I'll go pay the highest price in town for a new car'. Happens every day in the land of denial. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

[ QUOTE ]
...I love the hypocrisy of humans. Show me one person who says, "I think I'll go pay the highest price in town for a new car'. Happens every day in the land of denial. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part I agree with you, but there are still a few of us "hold-outs" from the old school of thinking that will gladly and willingly spend the extra dollars for the same basic item/service if it means the difference between a lousy buying experience/poor customer service and a great buying experience/great customer service. If the decision comes down to a difference in the quality of an item or service, for me the better item/service wins hands-down.

This is the basic philosophy of my own business; I know I'm not the "cheapest" show in town, but I try to treat each and every customer with the same dignity and respect I expect when I'm the consumer. (Believe me, there's more than one vendor who has lost my business due to poor customer service) As far as quality goes, I spend the extra money for the best parts I can buy and I absolutely refuse to cut corners on a job, which of course drives up the cost of my services.

Thankfully my customers recognize this and are willing to spend a few extra dollars with me over my competitors, otherwise I'd be out of business since cutting corners and/or costs through lesser-quality components is absolutely out of the question for me.

Yes, this mindset is completely in contrast to modern "business principals" (if you'll pardon the oxymoron), but it still seems to work for me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Eric
"Old School" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kim_Howie]

As I stated two years ago I have NEVER been in a WALLY WORLD yet. I wlll pay more, but the funny thing is I have found the product last a lot longer than a week. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif CHINA SUCKS

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dollars are votes and the American people have elected W-M. Maybe we should just cast out their votes and make the people shop at govt. owned and operated stores. Higher prices, even worse service and the requisite, eventual shortages. Yeah, that's the American way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Immediate Satisfaction from low Prices doe's not provide Long Term Fiscal responsibility........Why should we pay and live with sub-standard Chinese Junk, so a Corporation can make more Profit......Short Sighted Mentality only Feeds the Problem and sends more Jobs overseas....My $.02

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But what does that have to do with WM and the fact that they are the people's choice? Do you want to take away yet another choice in America?

I love the hypocrisy of humans. Show me one person who says, "I think I'll go pay the highest price in town for a new car'. Happens every day in the land of denial. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]



Look.......This is the Dog chasing it's Tail.....and it's spiraling downward..........After a while the people that buy the Cheapest "Junk" will soon (Hopefully) understand that they "Need" to get Value for their Money.."Value" not "Cheap"..........Put yourself in Charge of resolving this issue on a Nationwide Scale....Not Easy....But...Which way do you go first.....More local Jobs so people can buy better Items......or Cater to the Cheap crowd and keep the Jobs overseas so we can Buy "Cheap" and continue to have local jobs evaporate forever......Pretty soon all the water has drained out of the proverbial "Bucket" and then everyone won't even be able to afford the "Cheap" stuff.....No Simple solution, But ...."Cheap" is not the answer.......

my $.02

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[rat tuned]

i deliver goods to a couple of walmarts. i make a decent wage and even selling at a reduced retail they are my largest customer. i refuse to shop there. the general attitude of the management is unbelievable. look a man in his face to say hi and he/she will not even acknowledge. i'm blown away at the way a lot of the help gets treated. there are some decent respectful managers but the percentage of idiots is definately far greater than the rest of my customers. i happen to have made pretty good friends with quite a few people who are employed there. one incident that really sticks with me happened to a girl on the hot foods section. a customer was upset that a certain item was out of stock(very common). she appologized stating she has no control of items ordered and not shipped. this guy started yelling at her and said "listen you effen c*nt just go out back and get it for me). even though there were several witnesses who backed up her story the store manager felt he needed to "coach" her. stated that she did not try hard enough to satisfy the customer. i have dealt with a lot of companies and i have never seen a place that has virtually no class or sense of fairness or decency. this manager should be thankful that wasn't my wife or daughter!!
his ass would get a serious coaching. there are a lot of good hard working people in that company that have been misplaced from companys that went out of business because of walmart and now have to work for them because there uis not much else. absolute power corrupts absolutely. mike

[427king]

You wont shop there because the way they treat people, but you dont mind selling to them as your best customer??????????

[notstock71]

This is why I like this site. I posted this same thread on alot of the sites I visit and I'm getting hammered as being this and that. All I wanted to do was get some conversation going not only on Wal-Mart but major business in general. We could have these same arguments about oil companies too and maybe we will when a movie comes out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I really don't feel the need to reply to other peoples feelings and beliefs, to each their own. Who am I to critisize anyone. Thank God for the USA where we can make the decisions we want and express our thoughts and feelings openly. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[rat tuned]

i am not an independant operator. i am a delivery driver that is told what i must do if i want to stay employed. i do however get a certain $ percentage of what i sell. if i don't like it i guess i can can walk but i figure i like a roof over my head and food in my stomach. they have a right to exist just like every other retailer. i have every right not to shop there as a customer. 30 years in retail\wholesale i've seen some crazy things. but these guys take the cake. i gotta eat like everyone else. mike

[Salvatore]

Chuckie, Why are you defending WalMart so much or are you just being the devils advocate. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Whether we like WM or not it is not going to go away. I believe they sell products for less because even the Chinese (cheap,low grade products) have a lesser grade of product. I think WM buys the Chinese throw aways in some cases. JMO. It seems that way. Shop where you want to shop. There are no factories left in this country anyways. Its pretty much over for us with factory production as we once knew it. My grandkids will never here or use the word factory I bet. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[427king]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18298972/

[Schonyenko2]

You know, I'm not quite sure who to blame for the idea that as a nation we could base our economy on consumer spending, while we produce nothing.Was it the Republicans who made the folks in those double wides with the attached porches, that with enough plasma screen tvs, gas grilles, Nascar CDs, and 160 channel dish network that they were really "upper middle class"?
That unions are bad because they value senioity over personal initiative, so it's harder to suck your way to the top. And as flawed as they are, until we all decide to treat each other with respect, and fairness, it's better than having to deal with a friggin idiot on a power trip.
Or perhaps we blame the Democrats. Slick Willy supported NAFTA. And as much as GOPers hate to admit it, he was very good to business. Lotta stuff went to China under his administration.
But I guess in reality, we can just blame our selves. That's a tough one.Hard to just blame Wally world when the major lending institutions have sold out to foreign investers. Your home loan through Citigroup is most likely held by someone with a last name of middle east decent, or Mandrin.
Amazing. We won WWll, not because we had better equipment, or superior soldiers. We won because we had GM, Chrysler, Ford, International Harvestor, McDonnell Douglas, etc. We out produced the other side, and as time passed, our equipment did surpass the Axis. We made our own steel, and had craftsmen, welders, tool, and die makers, patternmakers, pipefitters. Skilled workers who had, and worked with pride.
How do you suppose that compares with being a Walmart greeter, where you wear the flag on your shirt, and don't have a clue why.
Maybe when the Chinese get tired of sellin us stuff, and just decide to take the place over, about the only thing we can do is throw hot Starbucks double lataes at em, and some Dunkin donuts. With a little luck they'll all die of high cholesteral before the take over the whole country. Then we'll have to get some illegals to clean em up I guess. Sorry for the rant.

[TDW]

I'm kinda glad I'll be dead in a few years. This Country is doomed.

[70 copo]

We have been given up for dead as a country several times in the last few decades. Great depression, Communist red scare, Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's now Wal Mart and the so called "Global Warming" scare where we spend Billions to go green while the developing countries continue to have zip for regulations.

Big government and regulations is the real problem. Ask any small business owner. These are the same poor folks that are likely hurt by Wal Mart's tactics.

We will get through it. This is the greatest country ever!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
We have been given up for dead as a country several times in the last few decades. Great depression, Communist red scare, Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's now Wal Mart and the so called "Global Warming" scare where we spend Billions to go green while the developing countries continue to have zip for regulations.

Big government and regulations is the real problem. Ask any small business owner. These are the same poor folks that are likely hurt by Wal Mart's tactics.

We will get through it. This is the greatest country ever!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I "Agree"........and it will happen thru "Self" Thinking individuals........and not the Sheep (Cheap) mentality.......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that it was we Americans who sold the Japanese everything in the 1980s. We'd sell bin Laden a fully loaded 747 if we could keep it out of the news.

[427king]

What about certain ethnic eateries and pizzerias that abound everywhere,that employ only certain countrymen and women[some on visitation,and some illegals id be certainly willing to bet since smiling and nodding is the extent of thier english skills], take away most locals business [who have to pay more overhead and taxes] ,dont provide proper healthcare,unemployment benefits,and who send all thier earnings back to thier country instead of spending it here[usually tax free of course]. Most buy food only from thier own country . They take local businesses ability to earn, and ddont buy food from the US in many cases,and dont spend thier money here,its normally sent back to thier country where a dollar goes much farther for them .And of course they dont need healthcare,Uncle Sam is nore than willing to provide that for them while they are visiting.Go to a large buffet[since they have the largest effect on local businesses] and see 150 people come in for lunch in an hour,and think to yourself that if this rstaurant wasnt here these 150 people would have to eat somewhere else locally and that would create 15 jobs for our kids wanting to cook,waitress or clean tables to get through school.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that it was we Americans who sold the Japanese everything in the 1980s. We'd sell bin Laden a fully loaded 747 if we could keep it out of the news.

[/ QUOTE ]



Bill, that is some big A$$ can of worms you are dumping on the table!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[427TJ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Yeah, I'm a pain in the a$$ that way!

[Salvatore]

WOW Mayor, Some very good points of view! Since the Unions have died out pretty much so has health care, pensions and workers rights. (my opinion) The working man has pretty much lost a voice in the work force. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif If the people couldn't blame labor, who would they blame? NEVER themselves or management! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Not us, it must be those workin stiffs, thats why the plant is shutting down! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[kwhizz]

Sammy..........The "Cheap" crowd is forcing "Cheap" into the Business community and Guess who pays the Price for "Cheap".........Again.....Instant "Cheap" satisfaction has "Long" term results..........Not an "Easy" problem to resolve.......But the world we grew up in has changed....

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, I'm not quite sure who to blame for the idea that as a nation we could base our economy on consumer spending, while we produce nothing.Was it the Republicans who made the folks in those double wides with the attached porches, that with enough plasma screen tvs, gas grilles, Nascar CDs, and 160 channel dish network that they were really "upper middle class"?
That unions are bad because they value senioity over personal initiative, so it's harder to suck your way to the top. And as flawed as they are, until we all decide to treat each other with respect, and fairness, it's better than having to deal with a friggin idiot on a power trip.
Or perhaps we blame the Democrats. Slick Willy supported NAFTA. And as much as GOPers hate to admit it, he was very good to business. Lotta stuff went to China under his administration.
But I guess in reality, we can just blame our selves. That's a tough one.Hard to just blame Wally world when the major lending institutions have sold out to foreign investers. Your home loan through Citigroup is most likely held by someone with a last name of middle east decent, or Mandrin.
Amazing. We won WWll, not because we had better equipment, or superior soldiers. We won because we had GM, Chrysler, Ford, International Harvestor, McDonnell Douglas, etc. We out produced the other side, and as time passed, our equipment did surpass the Axis. We made our own steel, and had craftsmen, welders, tool, and die makers, patternmakers, pipefitters. Skilled workers who had, and worked with pride.
How do you suppose that compares with being a Walmart greeter, where you wear the flag on your shirt, and don't have a clue why.
Maybe when the Chinese get tired of sellin us stuff, and just decide to take the place over, about the only thing we can do is throw hot Starbucks double lataes at em, and some Dunkin donuts. With a little luck they'll all die of high cholesteral before the take over the whole country. Then we'll have to get some illegals to clean em up I guess. Sorry for the rant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

"We have seen the enemy and he is us." (From an old "Pogo" cartoon by Walt Kelly.)

[71-LS6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have been given up for dead as a country several times in the last few decades. Great depression, Communist red scare, Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's now Wal Mart and the so called "Global Warming" scare where we spend Billions to go green while the developing countries continue to have zip for regulations.

Big government and regulations is the real problem. Ask any small business owner. These are the same poor folks that are likely hurt by Wal Mart's tactics.

We will get through it. This is the greatest country ever!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I "Agree"........and it will happen thru "Self" Thinking individuals........and not the Sheep (Cheap) mentality.......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The Regulatory Beast

Any folks that are truly concerned about the loss of our manufacturing base (as I am), need look no further than your nearest state or federal office for the following;

Environmental Protection Agency
Occupational Health and Safety Administration
Internal Revenue Service
Department of Transportation
ECT. ECT. ECT.

We have quite simply allowed ourselves to be regulated out of our own jobs. Wal-Mart is one symptom, not the problem. With the current trend of our country's "race to the bottom" for low prices, "economics of scale" i.e. the Wal-Mart model, will dictate that we farm out our national defense needs to China or Iran, thereby saving the taxpayer money. If we're lucky, we'll have no strategic value to anyone by then and we can rebuild our manufacturing base. A strong manufacturing base is not only economically desirable, but essential to our national security.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have been given up for dead as a country several times in the last few decades. Great depression, Communist red scare, Jap's buying everything in sight in the 80's now Wal Mart and the so called "Global Warming" scare where we spend Billions to go green while the developing countries continue to have zip for regulations.

Big government and regulations is the real problem. Ask any small business owner. These are the same poor folks that are likely hurt by Wal Mart's tactics.

We will get through it. This is the greatest country ever!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I "Agree"........and it will happen thru "Self" Thinking individuals........and not the Sheep (Cheap) mentality.......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The Regulatory Beast

Any folks that are truly concerned about the loss of our manufacturing base (as I am), need look no further than your nearest state or federal office for the following;

Environmental Protection Agency
Occupational Health and Safety Administration
Internal Revenue Service
Department of Transportation
ECT. ECT. ECT.

We have quite simply allowed ourselves to be regulated out of our own jobs. Wal-Mart is one symptom, not the problem. With the current trend of our country's "race to the bottom" for low prices, "economics of scale" i.e. the Wal-Mart model, will dictate that we farm out our national defense needs to China or Iran, thereby saving the taxpayer money. If we're lucky, we'll have no strategic value to anyone by then and we can rebuild our manufacturing base. A strong manufacturing base is not only economically desirable, but essential to our national security.

[/ QUOTE ]

And don't forget the Lawyers that sue for every little thing that also drive up the "Cost" of doing business in the U.S..........Do you think in their short term goal of getting as much as they can from Litigation that they care if they drive Corporate America out of their own country to do Business elsewhere?? (Look into how John Edwards made all his Money)......As I said Earlier.....This is a very difficult problem to solve in a Free Enterprise Economy...

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Salvatore]

Man Kwizz, You Hodges and Schonye for President!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Mr70]

You should have heard him before his vacation..http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ANDY M]

China has a population of just over 1 Billion people, and about as much real estate as the lower 48 states. The level of poverty is staggering compared to the USA, and the communist government is just now loosening up enough to allow a middle class, thanks to our demand for cheap products.
Keep in mind that the reason for China's "one child per family" rule is to prevent the inevitable population explosion. Women are second class citizens, hence the export of girls for adoption by Americans. The reason for bringing this up is that there will soon be a critical shortage of natural resources to support the growth and modernazation of China. The price of oil will double to $200 a barrel as we are outbid by China with our own money that bought all that cheap stuff. The people there are tired of riding their bikes to work, and GM is now building cars for them. They can't make enough steel or concrete to keep up the pace of modernization. When they run out, they will not have the materials to expand the infrastructure they need. Nothing like driving to work on a dirt road.
Now substitute the name India for China. Guess what, they will have the same problems, except that they have more people with less government, so corruption is even worse than China.
As the Chinese like to say, "May you live in interesting times". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif