LS-6 on Ebay

[427.060]

Looks like a nice car but what's the deal with the buildsheet and other paperwork?
James

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chev...tem120221615424 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevelle-SS-454-LS6-Documented-Low-Miles-s-Match_W0QQitemZ120221615424QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m120221615424)

[Mr. Chevy]

The window sticker is definately a re-type. The font is not correct. Nice Car though..

Rich

[Mr70]

..and that Atlanta Buildsheet is homemade too.
It's got nice details,(Headers aside),but many are incorrect for where/when/how it was actually assembled.You don't see many Desert Sand Chevelles,regardless of what engine it originally came with.

[69 Post Sedan]

Am I reading the casting date wrong on the rearend or is it stamped L 17 0?

[Ngtflyr]

Same car is on the Chevelle site for $69.9K

[PeteLeathersac]

Sure looks nice!.

eBay seller - Extreme Classics
The 'Goldberg' car?

136370A118941 Vin

A14729 Bdy

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[olredalert]

------Its nice of him to give the new owner a set of exhaust manifolds, but they at least ought to be the right ones.......Bill S

[427.060]

I think the seller is a member here.
James

[1969l78]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the seller is a member here.
James

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are right

http://www.extremeclassiccars.com/for_sale.html

[Mr70]

He goes by SUPERSPORT on here,and he did ask some information about this HERE (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=312366&Search page=1&Main=312366&Words=+SUPERSPORT&topic=&Search =true#Post312366).
Somebody asked how do I know what the buildsheet looks like?
A picture of it was listed in the auction earlier along with the other pictures,but I see now it has been removed from his auction description.

[427.060]

He sells some nice looking cars but removing the pictures of the paperwork without any explanation makes this one questionable.
James

[SUPERSPORT]

Just checked in and glad to see the post. I am unsure of the validity of the build sheet(s) and the window sticker is for sure a reproduction that many cars have for show. I thought it would be best to delete those photos and sell it as it is! 1970 LS6 that is a VERY VERY nice car, and presumed to be earliest LS6 off the line at the Lakewood assembly plant! Thanks.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/7901652/aview/Original_Rims_and_Polyglass_tires.JPG

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
and presumed to be earliest LS6 off the line at the Lakewood assembly plant!

[/ QUOTE ] Lakewood, New Jersey??

[SUPERSPORT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Assembly

[427.060]

If you just saw this post questioning the paperwork, why were the pictures removed several hours ago?
James

[SUPERSPORT]

James use a speel check. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif all in fun my friend!

[SUPERSPORT]

[ QUOTE ]
Same car is on the Chevelle site for $69.9K

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not but very similar. Thanks for the keen eye!

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
Just checked in and glad to see the post. I am unsure of the validity of the build sheet(s) and the window sticker is for sure a reproduction that many cars have for show. I thought it would be best to delete those photos and sell it as it is! 1970 LS6 that is a VERY VERY nice car, and presumed to be earliest LS6 off the line at the Lakewood assembly plant! Thanks.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/7901652/aview/Original_Rims_and_Polyglass_tires.JPG

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a shame there isn't any real supporting paper on this car.It would have been only the third 12B LS6 known to date(and from a third different plant) and would have helped establish a general timeline for rollout.If you were to presume it was an original LS6 car it would almost have to be the plant pilot,and like the other two second week cars a CMD brass hat zone demo.Unfortunately it could also be an L34 but a nice example and great color for sure http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[ohhawk]

With a questionable buildsheet and a reproduction window sticker it would seem a good share of the rest of the narrative in the ad should be removed as well.

'70 Chevelles without real docs are called clones in most circles today.

[SS427]

I must say I was not happy about the way it was implied that I authenticated this car as the earliest known Lakewood car after reading the other thread. Several people asked me about it and I just left it alone. After seeing more information on the car and finally seeing the buildsheets, it was obvious they were faked and I did NOT appreciate the implications. Bob had sent me an e-mail prior to my response to the thread and I was only posting that response to let him know that I returned his e-mail. At this point, NOTHING had been commented on regarding this car.

from the other thread (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=312366&Search page=1&Main=312366&Words=+SUPERSPORT&topic=&Search =true#Post312366)
[Quote]
SUPERSPORT,
I sent you an e-mail.
Rick Nelson

[/ QUOTE ]

Reply [Quote]
So is this the earliest vin known? Car is on its way! More details and photos to come. Thanks for the good info!

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is that e-mail that was sent to Bob Peck. No where in my e-mail do I even comment on this car even though Supersports reply might make it sound that way. This is just one of the reasons I am VERY skeptical of peoples requests anymore especially when coming from a broker. They make it sound like someone in the know authenticates the car so they can pass it off as something it is not. Hence my comment below regarding the public use of my name and information. I very seldom charge people for my services and DO NOT appreciate it when it is abused and all for their benefit. In the future, if it is for their gain, maybe I should make it for mine as well especially when my name is being used against my will. It is all about the money. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

E-mail;
From: EXTREMECLASSICS
To: [email protected]
Sent: 1/15/2008 9:48:59 P.M. Central Standard Time
Subj: Ls6 Chevelle

Hello,
I am thinking about purchasing this car and wondered if you had any information? It is supposed to have its original MOTOR stamped factory block it left the factory with and a auto trans.
Thank you!
Vin # 136370A118941

From: Rick Nelson ([email protected])
Sent: Fri 1/18/08 1:56 PM
To: [email protected]

I have the registry and do not currently know anything about a Lakewood plant car with VIN 118941. I saw your post on Yenko.net and had no information available that is why I did not respond. I would have to see copies of any documents and/or untouched photos showing the engine, trans and rearend stamping to determine the legitimacy of this car.
Rick Nelson
LS-6 Registry

Response;
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:14:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Ls6 Chevelle
To: [email protected]

Thanks Rick I am waiting for a fax now of 2 build sheets. Can I fax or email photos to you? Thanks for your response!
Best Regards,
Bob Peck

From: Rick Nelson ([email protected])
Sent: Fri 1/18/08 8:25 PM
To: [email protected]

Yes and please do. I would like to see the build sheet. Also any photos that may be available. Keep in mind, without being able to inspect the actual build sheet, I can only speculate on it's authenticity. Lastly, however my response is completely between you and I and I do not want my name used as an authentication tool without my permission.
Rick

Later I responded;

From: Rick Nelson ([email protected])
Sent: Mon 1/21/08 11:07 PM
To: [email protected]

Bob,
Were you going to e-mail me a copy of the buildsheet? (I never received them as promised so I was never able to make any judgement call on this car).
Rick

I am not sure who gave him information leading Bob to think his was the earliest Lakewood car but it was not me. I never even implied to ANY degree this car was even remotely real.
Rick

[sean70ss]

I can say Rick has saved me a bundle from getting scammed and never charged me a dime for checking things out on the LS6 cars I have. Brokers claim alot kind of like BJ auction and come to fin out they are full of well you know the rest.

Sean

[Charley Lillard]

I just read the threads and I didn't get the impression that you authenticated or endorsed the car anywhere.

[SUPERSPORT]

He didnt, and I dont believe I implied he did. Does Rick Nelson think he is the only one with information on cars?! Am I missing something? The car is what it is and described as such.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Does Rick Nelson think he is the only one with information on cars?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and considering this LS6 as possibly an undocumented but genuine car...but seeing you now including this kind of statement, especially when Rick has tried to help you SUCKS and could make the true enthusiast, helpful guy he is perhaps reconsider what he's been offering anyone for free?.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

So thanks a lot SS...merchandise your cars whatever way you want but I wouldn't be surprised if the true result is biting the rest of us here in the butt when we need and seek his help in the future?!.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
~ Pete

[SS427]

Bob, I am far from it and there are MANY more people on this web site who know a lot more about these cars then I ever will and I certainly hope that I never come across like I think I do. This is one of the reasons I seldom respond to LS-6 posts anymore. Just because I comment on a car or some parts certainly does not mean I know it all or that I am correct (like 064 vs 772 fans). Many times Chris White straightens me out and on some days I argue with him. I was also not trying to throw a stick at you, only trying to clear the air based on e-mails sent to me.

I only started this registry as I was voluntered for it and since I was already doing it for the purpose of bettering my restorations I accepted. However, my name is used all the time as "he authenticated the car" and before this happened again with this car I wanted to clear the air as people were already stating that off line.

In answer to Charley's comment, it was due to the dozens of e-mails I received from people here and over at Team Chevelle wondering what information I had that I was able to confirm it being the earliest Lakewood car. This based soley on the other thread started here where I commented that I sent him an e-mail and he responded that the car was on it's way. I responded to Bob's requests to me offline in an effort to not start just this very thing and it did anyway. I was in no way saying that Bob was in fact using my name to authenticate the car but that was what several people who sent me e-mails thought I did.

To be honest, I have not even taken a very close look at this Gold car other then to look at some of the underhood errors. I have several cars to restore that pay the bills but help people every day on their cars in an effort to make their restorations better. I don't get paid for that help and do it because I enjoy it. I just didn't want my name pulled into something that I had nothing to do with as this car somehow did. Exactly what I tried to avoid in the beginning. Nuff said, the car is what it is and hopefully goes to a good home.
Rick

[SUPERSPORT]

Thank you

[deuce-less]

i think it would be best for everyone to just take a deep breath....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

lets not lump all brokers/ dealers together as being bad guys..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

many times in the aquisition, sale, trading of cars information might be supplied and relied on by others as true, when it might not be. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

i have had personal dealings with rick and found him to be very helpful, knowledgeable and willing to assist site members in any way he can http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i have never purchased any cars from supersport, but feel that he should not be judged as being less than forthcomming when all of the facts may not be known.

better communication usually helps avoid misunderstanding.

jmo http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[six-corners]

I think some of you people have a better time calling peoples cars questionable more then anything. You sit back and question every little detail, and if someone is not in your "click" then you doubt them.

[P.J.]

We would not be having this discussion if the car had documentation. If its not availiable then its a real nice clone.
PJ

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
I think some of you people have a better time calling peoples cars questionable more then anything. You sit back and question every little detail, and if someone is not in your "click" then you doubt them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's best not to generalize...if it can be at all avoided... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[deuce-less]

just because a car lacks complete documentation does not make it a clone http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

what makes very original cars more valueable is the very fact that they are complete and unmolested, complete documentation is wonderful, but not always available.....
lack of complete documentation does not automatically relegate a car to clone status. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Sorry but my posting above was not condemming the car, only reacting to how anyone could seemingly shoot at the person who had freely offered them their time and help...also the way this whole episode may alter Rick's attitude towards helping others?.

I still like the car and really hope it is truly genuine!. The fake docs were obviously hurting it and getting rid of them is great...now go burn them before they can ever end back up w/ the car!.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[427king]

While i agree nit picking someones choice of rims may go a bit too far, Im guessing there are people on this site that read these posts to learn about a purchase they are looking to make whether it be a car on the site or a similar car elsewhere. There are alot of knowledgeable people here. If you bring your painting to the antique roadshow and its a fake they will tell you its crap,and if its rare they will tell you its a great find.Here you get it done for free,and you dont have to travel either . Hire someone to tell you what you get here for free and youll see what that means[usually around 600.00 plus expenses]... It would be an injustice to have a clone pop up here on the site and have everyone afraid to offend someone and shut up thus alowing someone to get hosed. There is a pecking order on EVERY site and group you can name , thats society. I cant get a better tee time at the golf course because there are members there that either pay more or have been there longer,its life. Im am certain that this site is responsible for saving more than a few people some serious coin,[and always at no charge]and sometimes you have to upset some people to help others. Bottom line is if you ask questions about your car they will be answered in a nice manner normally. If you bring a clone here and say its a special one off original ,you will be sent packing ,i dont have a problem with that. Maybe whats needed is a site for clones that think they are real,that way members can tell each other what they want to hear because they have alot in common.

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
You sit back and question every little detail, and if someone is not in your "click" then you doubt them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Verbatim from the ad-
"This is the EARLIEST KNOWN LS6 PRODUCED AT THE LAKEWOOD ASSEMBLY PLANT!!"

That's a tad more than a little detail and impossible to validate based on the ambiguous nature of this car.I think the quote should have been omitted from the ad along with the bogus docs.If the car was a 12C then maaaybe..

Like Bruce said it's not wise to generalize..there are several clicks on this board! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif That's what makes it a healthy forum,and promotes hits and generates ad viability.You can even donate to keep the sight running(hint)If we all drank the same kool-aid it would get pretty darn boring..In the end it should be about truth's in the hobby before profit- but I respect those who earn a living flipping-just keep it real!

Just my .02,which is probably .02 more than Rick is making organizing the LS6 showcase at SVF(hint hint)
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[deuce-less]

chuckie....

that reply is the best typed item i have ever viewed from you. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
chuckie....

that reply is the best typed item i have ever viewed from you. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


the writers strike is over !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
While i agree nit picking someones choice of rims may go a bit too far, Im guessing there are people on this site that read these posts to learn about a purchase they are looking to make whether it be a car on the site or a similar car elsewhere. There are alot of knowledgeable people here. If you bring your painting to the antique roadshow and its a fake they will tell you its crap,and if its rare they will tell you its a great find.Here you get it done for free,and you dont have to travel either . Hire someone to tell you what you get here for free and youll see what that means[usually around 600.00 plus expenses]... It would be an injustice to have a clone pop up here on the site and have everyone afraid to offend someone and shut up thus alowing someone to get hosed. There is a pecking order on EVERY site and group you can name , thats society. I cant get a better tee time at the golf course because there are members there that either pay more or have been there longer,its life. Im am certain that this site is responsible for saving more than a few people some serious coin,[and always at no charge]and sometimes you have to upset some people to help others. Bottom line is if you ask questions about your car they will be answered in a nice manner normally. If you bring a clone here and say its a special one off original ,you will be sent packing ,i dont have a problem with that. Maybe whats needed is a site for clones that think they are real,that way members can tell each other what they want to hear because they have alot in common.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said Chuck....

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
Im am certain that this site is responsible for saving more than a few people some serious coin,[and always at no charge]and sometimes you have to upset some people to help others. Bottom line is if you ask questions about your car they will be answered in a nice manner normally. If you bring a clone here and say its a special one off original ,you will be sent packing ,i dont have a problem with that. Maybe whats needed is a site for clones that think they are real,that way members can tell each other what they want to hear because they have alot in common.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly Chuck... everyone on here seems to acknowledge that they do not know it all... and rarely speak in absolutes... we just want to see the papertrail if you are claiming something... however if you bring something on here and just ask... What do I have? They will honestly tell you... what it is... whether it is a restamp... whether it is too close to call... or whether it is original... etc... they also will abstain from making calls on stuff they don't know... this is the way others learn what to look for... it makes us better collectors and custodians to the Real Cars...

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think some of you people have a better time calling peoples cars questionable more then anything. You sit back and question every little detail, and if someone is not in your "click" then you doubt them.

[/ QUOTE ]


sixcorners............That was totally uncalled for....Maybe it's time to go to your room for a while...........

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I know it all...Just ask my Mom.

[P.J.]

Be honest about your car, especially on this site, because
you can't fool all the people all the time.
Peter

[1967 Impala]

By the way its clique not click

clique [kleek, klik]
–noun 1. a small, exclusive group of people; coterie; set.
–verb (used without object) 2. Informal. to form, or associate in, a clique.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[SUPERSPORT]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way its clique not click

Maybe in Canada?? As stated Inspections are welcome on the car. Thanks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[six-corners]

[ QUOTE ]
With a questionable buildsheet and a reproduction window sticker it would seem a good share of the rest of the narrative in the ad should be removed as well.

'70 Chevelles without real docs are called clones in most circles today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is just one comment basically calling this guy full of sh... Alot of people jumped on me , but like I said, some people seem to enjoy bashing and calling people out on cars without the paperork.

Another guy also mentioned the window sticker being a repro...yeah it was, who cares, how many people saved them back in the day?

Alot of you guys know your stuff, there is no doubt about that. But did you some how forget to really enjoy a car? I don't know this dude selling it, and I do not know the car personally...so I won't pre-judge and question him or his car. But I guess it is easier to discredit and question someone, then to take their word for it.

I will NEVER be able to afford a car like this or any other high dollar muscle (Nickeys, Dana, Berger etc...) and I appreciate this site to look at these cars and learn from them, and I appreciate the knowledge, but like I said, unless you know the car is a fake, why question it?

And yes, I spelled "click" wrong, it is clique. So I look like a goof, who cares.

[427king]

Even I would feel guilty about not donating 25.00 for 3 million dollars in free ads.

[ohhawk]

I think most see this thread as a discussion about an ad not about a car and its condition or correctness. It's a discussion about the car's pedigree. I don't like to see people get misled when it comes to their hard earned dollars. I guess as some have pointed out that in theory because a car doesn't have paperwork doesn't mean it is a clone is true. But with some models ('70 Chevelle SS included) the swindlers in this hobby have now forced the market to say if you don't have the paperwork then you don't have the real thing and it will be priced accordingly. This is one of those models that is guilty until proven innocent.

P.S. I also am not an expert but do enjoy all cars regardless of their pedigree or condition. I just know if I'm going to spend some serious money on a car that is advertised as such and such then you need to prove it to me. I don't see the proof, I see a misleading ad.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Wow, never thought I'd see the philosophical side of Chuckue - well said http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Steve Shauger]

(six corners quote)
"I will NEVER be able to afford a car like this or any other high dollar muscle (Nickeys, Dana, Berger etc...) and I appreciate this site to look at these cars and learn from them, and I appreciate the knowledge, but like I said, unless you know the car is a fake, why question it?"

I think if you look at the thread you will see much has been learned. This information is valuable to prospective buyers. Also the owner/broker is also questioning the validity of the cars window sticker and buildsheet.

(supersport)
"Just checked in and glad to see the post. I am unsure of the validity of the build sheet(s) and the window sticker is for sure a reproduction that many cars have for show."

Now if you are presuming this is the earliest Lakewood LS6 1970 LS6 (owner/brokers words), then you will be called on it.

Based on what I have seen in the add or written in this thread I would call this a questionable car. Now based on what has been uncovered why would you not question this car. Hasn't this thread provided you with enough information to make your statement kind of weak.

(six corners)
"unless you know the car is a fake, why question it?"

This site is a very valuable tool for everyone in the hobby.

[six-corners]

[ QUOTE ]
Even I would feel guilty about not donating 25.00 for 3 million dollars in free ads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain. Just because I don't donate my money to this site, I should feel guilty? Just because I don't "pay-up" I guess you want me to shut-up.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even I would feel guilty about not donating 25.00 for 3 million dollars in free ads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain. Just because I don't donate my money to this site, I should feel guilty? Just because I don't "pay-up" I guess you want me to shut-up.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sixcorners

Do yourself a Favor and think about what you are saying.....your posts have always been in good taste and shown you to be a real Car guy.......Please try and Keep it that way...........

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Exactly!!!

Try to look at it this way. You find your coveted Nickey Camaro buried in a barn, but you don't know if it's real, and the price is within your range. Where will you go for help?

If you come here with some pics, this group will nit-pick that thing to a gnat's asss for you - for free. How thankful will you be if they spot some very small 'nit' that disqualifies the 'barn find' as authentic?

That's why we analyze the cars against the claims made about them, it has saved a lot of people a lot of trouble - someday it might just save you!

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

When I found mine, I was scared to death! Fortunately the car had been discussed a bit here. I have been into cars far a long time but not in the last 10 or so years so I was lagging behind on all the things that are important now which were not as important back then (builds, details etc.)
When I started to look a friend of mine who is a member here told me "theres some real smart dudes there that will help you out" so I signed up. The bottom line is from what I knew and from reading the comments here I got the confidence to "pull the trigger on the deal" I was scared, and my car was not the price of some but, still not chump change to throw down on a gamble, I got a great car and you guys helped me. I welcome people to pick it apart then I know what is right and what is wrong.

Just my $.02 fro the other side of the fence

Thanks Guys!!!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[TDW]

Some real good responses in this thread. When I started looking for a 68 Z28 quite a few years ago, I had MacNeish looking for me too. I told him how important it was to me to have factory paperwork on any car I bought. He told me back then that paper wasn't all that important, as it could be and was being faked. I am glad I listened to him, as my L78 car does'nt have any paperwork. Real born with drivetrain, but no paper. Which is fine by me. Much easier to fake paper than the engine block and stamp.

[six-corners]

I'm sorry for anyone that I offended. You guys provide a great service on a great forum and website. I hope that if I ever do find that Nickey Chevrolet in an old garage on the Northside of Chicago, you guys won't chew my head off and bring back up my posts.

I guess I'm just into my "day-two" type of cars and could care less about numbers matching on this and that, but I realize there is a lot of people who are into having everything correct and they have to worry about some assho??? out there who will scam potential high dollar muscle buyers by cloning paperwork and faking the high end type of muscle cars,and this site no doubt will know what to look for and what is real. I know I would be pissed if I bought what I thought was an SS (SS anything) and it turned out to be just a Plain Jane. So once again, I'm sorry to anyone that I offended.

Dennis