1966 Corvette 427 & M22 Trans

[Viper69Z28]

Aloha guys I need some help buying an engine & transmission out of a 1966 Corvette.1st is the price,The guy wants $3500 for the engine, pan to heads.He said that it is a 425 horse engine with rectangle port heads.What are the letter codes to look for on the engine block.Next is he said he also has the M22 from it & said he wants $1500.First question,On the trans is does it have the C designation on it, if not how do you tell if it is a M22.Also is the pricing for both in the ball park & also I would like a M22 That makes the loud noise.I know this one has the small output shaft,But does it make as much noise as the 1970 M22 with the large output shaft.My friend had one & it was very loud .Any help would be greatly appreciated Mahalo Irvin

[MosportGreen66]

There were only 22 (I think) '66 Vettes built originally with L72's and 4speeds. Check for a vin. A 425hp car will have a vin after 3,000ish +/-. "IP" is the engine pad code for a L72 in a '66 Vette. Prices seem fair but I'm not expert!

-Dan

[snydes]

There were 5,258 L72 Vettes in '66, only 15 cars out of total production had the M22. If it is a real '66 L72 than 3500 for a complete engine is a good buy. I certainly hope it isn't an orginal big block car much less an original big block M22 car and the guy is selling the engine out of it, if so he should use the money to have his head examined!

Good luck!

[3macs1]

I have sold a bare 66 Vette 4 bolt 427 block for more than he is asking. It is a steal at the prices quoted and if that M22 is a real 66 I would be posting the numbers to try to get the drive train back with the original car since it is a rare rare combinations as the guys state.

[MosportGreen66]

I knew I was off... Always get the 22 production number figure confused with tranny... whopps.

-Dan

[Born30YrsLate]

...wouldn't the "C" designation he mentioned indicate the trans is at the earliest from 1969?...

[3macs1]

[ QUOTE ]
...wouldn't the "C" designation he mentioned indicate the trans is at the earliest from 1969?...

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree if it case is original but you know the way we all did in those cases back in the day and exchanged them for what ever we could find to fit.A true 66 M22 is a super rare piece. Be interesting to see what it had for a side cover and some of the casting numbers. That would help. Small output shaft is worth digging deeper. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

"...if that M22 is a real 66 I would be posting the numbers to try to get the drive train back with the original car..."

Exactly!.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[3macs1]

[ QUOTE ]
"...if that M22 is a real 66 I would be posting the numbers to try to get the drive train back with the original car..."

Exactly!.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds Andy of that vette still being alive some where is good. I know back in the day not even you and I were cutting up 66 corvettes like we did with so many others. DAAAAAAAAAAA. I still have nightmares now over some. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[Viper69Z28]

Wow didnt know how rare these cars were.I was just going to put the drivetrain in my Camaro.I will ask the guy if he still has the car.Also sorry if my question was not clear on the transmission.I was just saying in reference to it might having a designation letter C as the 69'S had.I would not know how else to determine if it was a M22 or not.Thanks for all the response & help I will let everyone know the outcome Mahalo Irvin

[firstgenaddict]

Weren't the 66 L72 M22 cars the forerunners to the L88's?
Yenko raced a 66 L72 M22... didn't he?

[PeteLeathersac]

"...I still have nightmares now over some..."

Me too Joe!.

As I've mentioned before, I was working at the boneyard in the late 70's/early 80's when the 'glory years' cars were rolling through..

I used to put off squeezing certain cars hoping someone would show up who cared...caught a lot of grief from the owner and co-workers always poking fun at me about it too!.

Sadly few who cared ever showed up and the cars all eventually had to go..
So besides the flocks of Mustangs (all Fords were first into the press), I pushed tons of Muscle Mopars, GM's and other great ones into their final ride!.

There's lots I'll always remember putting in the press but specific cars I often think of are the '69 Judge coupe, '68 Impala SS ragtop six banger, '63 Nova SS Ragtop, '64 Acadian Invader Post, 70-1/2 Falcon Post...even a 'never built' Oshawa MK1V Chevy powered '70 Goat!.

I also used to save the best of the complete front clips, fenders and bumpers also every single factory performance hood and had them laying comfortably on their sides in racks.. I went back years later and the then owner nut told me he made a fortune in weight from the hoods alone!.

I tried!.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
~ Pete

Sorry for the hijack/rant...back to the subject and James mention of Yenko's '66 racer, I'm pretty sure Yenko had one of the real '66 L-88 cars, yes a '66 L-88...like Penske got!.

[427.060]

Depending on the casting numbers, the heads might be worth the asking price of the engine. I would buy it and then ask questions later.
James

[Drew Papsun]

[ QUOTE ]
Aloha guys I need some help buying an engine & transmission out of a 1966 Corvette.1st is the price,The guy wants $3500 for the engine, pan to heads.He said that it is a 425 horse engine with rectangle port heads.What are the letter codes to look for on the engine block.Next is he said he also has the M22 from it & said he wants $1500.First question,On the trans is does it have the C designation on it, if not how do you tell if it is a M22.Also is the pricing for both in the ball park & also I would like a M22 That makes the loud noise.I know this one has the small output shaft,But does it make as much noise as the 1970 M22 with the large output shaft.My friend had one & it was very loud .Any help would be greatly appreciated Mahalo Irvin

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Irvin,
The 1966 M-22 Transmission input clutch shaft has no circlar grooves. The main case has 2 plugs in the passenger side in upper is the fill plug and the lower is the drain plug.
You need to get information of the stamping of assembly date and VIN stamped on the rear flange of the main case.
You need to get digital photos of the engine pad and casting part number and casting date. The photos of the transmission as described above.
This will help to see what are looking to purchase.
Regards,
Drew Papsun
[email protected]

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
Weren't the 66 L72 M22 cars the forerunners to the L88's?
Yenko raced a 66 L72 M22... didn't he?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, the Best Photo sponsored white/red '66 Convert!

[3macs1]

Hello Irvin,
The 1966 M-22 Transmission input clutch shaft has no circlar grooves. The main case has 2 plugs in the passenger side in upper is the fill plug and the lower is the drain plug.
You need to get information of the stamping of assembly date and VIN stamped on the rear flange of the main case.

Hi Drew:
I would use the muncie M22 two groove and dual plug check as a guide only. I got burned real bad years back on so called 66 M22 that was not. The only way to know for sure is to take the side cover off and look at the gear angle.Some replacement over the counter shafts had no grooves only and some m21's had the dual plug. Also at least up here 66 was a year they were not consistant in stamping the cases with any VIN.If he would post the casting numbers of the case and side cover and indicate if the side cover have studs for the levers which it should that would help along with a picture of the gears.
If that is not true CRASH correct me.
I have a real nice 66 trans no groove 10 spline input,small output, reverse switch and dual plugs but it has no M22 gears in it. Unfortunately I paid M22 prices for it but that was many years ago. Not that I am any smarter nowhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Just trying to help

[bulletpruf]

There was a brown or maroon mid-year Vette under a tarp near Tripler hospital a few years ago. Has been there quite a while (10 years or more). Knocked on the door and the lady said it was her son's car and he was going to restore it. Couldn't see much under the tarp, but I belive it was a '65 or '66 if I recall correctly. Might be worth checking out.

Scott

Scott

[HiHorse]

[ QUOTE ]
There were only 22 (I think) '66 Vettes built originally with L72's and 4speeds. Check for a vin. A 425hp car will have a vin after 3,000ish +/-. "IP" is the engine pad code for a L72 in a '66 Vette. Prices seem fair but I'm not expert!

-Dan

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the engine code is IK for a '66 vette that was equipped with the M22

[snydes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There were only 22 (I think) '66 Vettes built originally with L72's and 4speeds. Check for a vin. A 425hp car will have a vin after 3,000ish +/-. "IP" is the engine pad code for a L72 in a '66 Vette. Prices seem fair but I'm not expert!

-Dan

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the engine code is IK for a '66 vette that was equipped with the M22

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct.

[snydes]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow didnt know how rare these cars were.I was just going to put the drivetrain in my Camaro.I will ask the guy if he still has the car.Also sorry if my question was not clear on the transmission.I was just saying in reference to it might having a designation letter C as the 69'S had.I would not know how else to determine if it was a M22 or not.Thanks for all the response & help I will let everyone know the outcome Mahalo Irvin

[/ QUOTE ]

If this turns out to be a '66 427 and you buy to re-sell, please PM me with the details. I'd be interested depending on dates.

Thanks

[firstgenaddict]

OBTW... the M22 will make noise whether it is a small or large output shaft... it has nothing to do with the shaft... it is the straight cut gears inside the case that make the NOISE!

No comments about the shaft size guys... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[P.J.]

[ QUOTE ]
OBTW... the M22 will make noise whether it is a small or large output shaft... it has nothing to do with the shaft... it is the straight cut gears inside the case that make the NOISE!22s

Both my my M22 make noise like a 747 jet screaming in first gear and I do it on purpose especially driving in first gear in town. Love it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
PJ

No comments about the shaft size guys... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[Viper69Z28]

Hey guys Thanks for all of your helpful knowledge.Well I spoke to the guy today to try & get more information but he is not willing to move on it & just keeps telling me to come on saturday just like we planned and look for myself.I am going for sure to check it out.I have a question still about how to tell if it is a real 66 M22.I know I had a M20 from a 66 chevy of some sort because I remember it having a 6 in the sequence P6M30A could this be right or just a miss print.I know I've heard someone say that the letter sequence started in 69.Also I have not looked at alot of transmission gears is it easy to tell the straight cut gears M22 from the regular M21 & M20 Gears.Thanks again for all the help Irvin

[3macs1]

I would not buy the trans without taking the side cover off regardless what it is stamped etc.
Here is what to look for
http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml

[snydes]

If it is the original trans to that engine, and the engine is a real '66 L72, all of which I would say is unlikely, it will have a vin derivitive stamped on the transmission case that should match the vin on the block (provided it's still there of course). The engine would have the code "IK" for the suffix code if it was originally a vette L72 equipped with a M22 or "IP" if it was equipped with a M21. If you do get lucky and it's a matched '66 Vette engine and trans, it's worth a whole lot more as a set. Good luck! Can't wait to hear what it is!

[P.J.]

[ QUOTE ]
If it is the original trans to that engine, and the engine is a real '66 L72, all of which I would say is unlikely, it will have a vin derivitive stamped on the transmission case that should match the vin on the block (provided it's still there of course). The engine would have the code "IK" for the suffix code if it was originally a vette L72 equipped with a M22 or "IP" if it was equipped with a M21. If you do get lucky and it's a matched '66 Vette engine and trans, it's worth a whole lot more as a set. Good luck! Can't wait to hear what it is!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya like about 12 to 15 thousand dollars (Canadian )
PJ

[3macs1]

Ya like about 12 to 15 thousand dollars (Canadian )
PJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree PJ. Like I said I sold a bare 66 corvette block for 3500 and that was not yesterday. It was a standard bore however.

[Viper69Z28]

Aloha guys what a dissapointing day.I finally get to look at the engine & I discover it to be a ID code with a 3869942 Casting.I tell the guy that its not a Corvette engine Then he starts to tell me to look at the first letters which was TT but I tell him it is the last letters that are the correct ones.Then he goes on to say that he thought that it was a 427 425 66 Corvette engine & he shouldve checked it like I asked him to.But then I find out that he is a restorer of corvettes so how could he make that kind of mistake.Then I ask about the M22 then he says that he already sold it (likely story).But just so happens he has another one to show someone else to buy & it has some kind of Italian M22 gears that are better then GM.If anybody has heard of this please let me know.But as I check the M22 trans it turns out to be a 1970 which I would like to purchase but I was weary already so I wasnt buying.Then he tells me that if no one buys the engine that he was going to deck the block & pay someone in the mainland to send him some original stamps & restamp it with the IK & then put it into a 66 Corvette & that this practice was acceptable in the Corvette world.If anyone is into Corvettes can you please comfirm this because I know in the Camaro World it is not.Thank you all for your help Irvin

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
...........it has some kind of Italian M22 gears that are better then GM.If anybody has heard of this please let me know........

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, sorry that turned out bad...in the early 70's didn't Harley Davidson get an upright twin made in Italy? I had a neighbor with one that he rode around alot....in the back of his truck !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif sorry... it's late

[nuch_ss396]

Irvin,

In the Corvette world, or our world for that matter,
decking the block and restamping it will get the seller
skinned alive! The fact that the seller told you his
intentions ( fraud ) really shows you what kind of business
man he really is. Count your blessings. Save your money and
keep looking elsewhere. Too shady for my taste.

Nuch

[Xplantdad]

I thought is okay in the Vette world to restamp blocks??? Where did I hear that or read it? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Maybe I'm thinking of Fords... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

Bruce that does sound familiar dosen't it. Just a longshot and I am VERY tired, but didn't a Vettefest Judge come on and tell us that the motors are judged by "appearing correct" and a restamp is worth more points then a wrong or no stamp (decked) block ?

[Xplantdad]

I think that's what I remember...Good call Chris. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

BTW, I'm tired too! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Sorry as I know some here condone them but the evil you're referring to is called a 'restoration engine' and is acceptable in 'Vette circles..
To me personally just a fancy name for 'perfect forgery'..
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif
~ Pete

[snydes]

Irvin, what you found was a '66 full size chevy 427 425hp (L72), which is still nothing to sneeze at, and depending on it's condition, still a good buy at $3,500. I wouldn't dismiss it just yet. If it still has the original heads, they are worth the better part of that price.

Restamps in the Corvette world seem very common, and there are those who advertise such services, but for the most part is still looked down upon. I wouldn't exactly call it acceptable. As far as restamps getting more points than a no-stamp or decked block, that is true, but it has to look the part. I'm sure there are not to many owners going to raise there hand and say "no, wait, thats actually a restamp" so what do you do? If they can't tell it's restamped they get full points, but there are a lot of factors that are considered when they judge those pads, so it has to be darn convincing, or like Pete said a "perfect forgery".

[Tarrytown SS427s]

[ QUOTE ]
I discover it to be a ID code with a 3869942 Casting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please try to get all the pad numbers(partial vin and Tonawanda date) from this block and the casting date? An ID block is just rare as an IK block IMO.
Steve

[BARN FIND]

[ QUOTE ]
Aloha guys what a dissapointing day.I finally get to look at the engine & I discover it to be a ID code with a 3869942 Casting.I tell the guy that its not a Corvette engine Then he starts to tell me to look at the first letters which was TT but I tell him it is the last letters that are the correct ones.Then he goes on to say that he thought that it was a 427 425 66 Corvette engine & he shouldve checked it like I asked him to.But then I find out that he is a restorer of corvettes so how could he make that kind of mistake.Then I ask about the M22 then he says that he already sold it (likely story).But just so happens he has another one to show someone else to buy & it has some kind of Italian M22 gears that are better then GM.If anybody has heard of this please let me know.But as I check the M22 trans it turns out to be a 1970 which I would like to purchase but I was weary already so I wasnt buying.Then he tells me that if no one buys the engine that he was going to deck the block & pay someone in the mainland to send him some original stamps & restamp it with the IK & then put it into a 66 Corvette & that this practice was acceptable in the Corvette world.If anyone is into Corvettes can you please comfirm this because I know in the Camaro World it is not.Thank you all for your help Irvin

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe "CRASH" could chime in here, the "italian gear" M22 gears/cases that he refers to are I think from a company called AUTOGEAR. They are said to be much better than the original Muncie parts and are priced as such (higher). So a 1970 M22 with these parts would be "better than new" if anyone were looking for one.

[Paul_S]

Yes, as mentioned above ID is a rare piece and worth it.

If those are new production gears in that trans their through Autogear in Syracuse and are cut in Italy. Get as much data as you can and shoot before it's gone.

[Viper69Z28]

Aloha guys Thanks for all the input but for me when something goes this bad that fast I start for the door who knows what else might be wrong or what might not be in the parts ect.As for the engine pad stamping I know it was TT and at the end ID didnt look at the Date numbers.Also the heads were 65 heads and the whole thing didnt have all the parts and looked to be outside, engine and heads so a total rebuild would be in order also to buy all the parts needed would be way over my budget.I know I would still like a 70 M22 but the trust issue was gone so I am not even thinking twice about purchasing anything.Thanks for all the help and interesting information, you guys Rock.Mahalo Irvin

[Yenko496]

Hi Guys, a couple of years ago I bought a M22 Muncie, (confirmed with side cover off) 010 main case, date P1208 and VIN 6S108505. I was told it was from a 66 Corvette. Can post pics as I would like to verify if it is the real thing. Michael.

[Norm reynolds]

Restamps in the Corvette world
ARE YOU KIDDING ME guys in the corvette world would not accept this hell at the ncrs they took points off of ours just because the staples that hold the mud flaps in the engine compartment were sliver and they wanted to see black
ticked me off so much I took out a black marker pen and made them black the point I am trying to make is in the corvette world they are real sticklers for having every thing correct
the correct code for a 66 M22 is IK and the m21 is IP