1970 L78 Nova SS owner needs feedback.

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Ok, I know I am open to all kinds of opinions both good and bad. However, it seems to me that this site has more experts than any other site. I am about to finish a rotisserie restoration on my 1970 L78 Nova SS. The car has the vin on the engine and transmission. However, I have not been able to obtain any other documentation. In my limited experience, the stampings and broach marks look legitimate. Please way in on what your belief is as I will be putting the car on eBay in a few weeks and need to get the opinions out now and not while it is on eBay. I am not a dealer but a (58) years young Warden of a Correctional Facility here in Maine and I love all types of Muscle cars.

Here is what I have done and ID info regarding my 1970 L78 Nova SS:
• Frame Off Restoration;
• Rebuilt Engine and Heads;
o Bored 60 Over;
o TRW Forged Pistons;
o Reconditioned Rods;
o Crank Turned 10 & 10;
o New Hydraulic Cam and Lifters;
o New Timing Set;
o New Oil Pump;
o New Rings and Bearings;
o Flywheel Machined;
o New U-Joints;
o New Clutch, Pressure Plate and Throw-out bearing;
o Reconditioned Holley 4557 Carburetor;
o Reconditioned 1100837 Alternator;
o Reconditioned 1108418 Starter;
o Reconditioned 3969811 Water Pump;
o New Power Brake Booster;
o Heads Reconditioned by Top Machine Shop in State
• New Interior - Complete;
• New Diamondback Radial Redlines;
• New Brake Lines, Hoses and Booster;
• New Gas Tank, Sending Unit and Lines;
• New Front and Rear Bumpers;
• New Emblems - All;
• New Radiator, Hoses and Clamps;
• New Coils and Shocks;
• New Date Coded Plug Wires;
• New and Correct Maintenance Free GM Battery and Battery Cables;
• New Valve Covers;
• New Clutch, Pressure Plate and Throw Out Bearing;
• New Weather-strip;
• New Dash;
• Reconditioned Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner (not an original).

Vin. Number Decode 114270W192535

1 Chevrolet
14 Nova 8-Cyl
27 2-Door Sport Coupe
0 1970
W Willow Run Michigan
192535 Sequential Number

Body Tag Decode

STYLE 70-11427
BODY WRN111198
PAINT 28 28
TRIM 733
11D A

STYLE 70 1970
11427 2 Door Sport Coupe Nova 8-Cyl
BODY WRN Willow Run, Mi.
111198 Sequential Body Number
TRIM 733 Black Vinyl Bucket Seats
PAINT 28 Fathom Blue Lower Paint
28 Fathom Blue Upper Paint
11D 11 November
D 4th Week of November
A Accessory Code

Block Casting Number 3969854 1970 402/375hp 4-Bolt Correct

Block Casting Date J30 9 Correct Time Frames
J October
30 30th Day of October
9 1969

Block Stamping Numbers T1121CKO 10W192535 Correct

T Tonawanda Engine Plant
11 November
21 21st Day of November Correct Time Frames
CKO 402/375hp Special High Performance 4-Speed

1 Chevrolet
0 1970
W Willow Run Michigan
192535 Matching Vin Number

Heads 3964291 1970 402/375 Correct

Pass K3 9 Correct Time Frames
K November
3 3rd Day of November
9 1969

Driv I11 9 Correct Time Frames
I September
11 11th Day of September
9 1969

Crankshaft 3904815 1970 402 Nodular Iron Correct

Crank Pulley 3937787 Correct

Flywheel 3789733 396/427 Big Block Correct
K18 9 Correct Time Frames
K November
18 18th Day of November
9 1969

Carb (Reconditioned) List #: 4557 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
Part #: 3967477 GG Correct
Model #: 4150 Correct
9A1 Correct Time Frames
9 1969
A November
1 1st Week of November


Intake Manifold 3963569 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
11 3 69 Correct Time Frames
11 November
3 3rd Day of November
69 1969

Exhaust Manifolds LH 3909879 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
K5 9 Correct Time Frames
K November
5 5th Day of November
9 1969

RH 3916178 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
K4 9 Correct Time Frames
K November
4 4th Day of November
9 1969

Water Pump (Reconditioned) 3969811 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
K6 9
K November
6 6th Day of November
9 1969

Alternator (Reconditioned) 1100837 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
9K21 Correct Time Frames
9 1969
K November
21 21st Day of November


Starter (Reconditioned) 1108418 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
9J5 Correct Time Frames
9 1969
J September
5 5th Day of September

Distributor 1112000 1970 402/375hp Nova Correct
9H20 Correct Time Frames
9 1969
H August
20 20th day of August

Transmission Numbers P0S13A-0W192535

P Muncie 4-Speed Wide Ratio Passenger
0 1970 Correct Time Frames
S November
13 13th Day of November
A M20 Close Ratio. 2.52/1.88/1.46/1.00/3.11

0W192535 Matching Vin Number

Transmission Casting Numbers
Main Case: 3925661 1970 – 1974 Muncie Correct
Extension Housing: 3857584 Correct
Side cover: 3952648 Correct

Rear Axle 3969341 1970 12-Bolt Rear Axle Correct

CBT1103G
E

CBT 1970 Nova 3:55 Posi
11 November Correct Time Frames
03 3rd Day of November
G Detroit Gear & Axle
E Eaton Positraction Differential

Bell housing 3899621 Correct

Thermostat Housing 3877660 Correct

Harrison Big Block Heater Core Date 69F Correct

69 1969 Correct Time Frames
F June of 1969

Jack Assembly U69 1969 Correct

Click here for tons of engine photos:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/

Click here for tons of restoration photos:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/

Thank you in advance whichever way it goes.

Regards,
Al Barlow
Thomaston, Maine

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/04-17-2008004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/04-17-2008005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/04-17-2008009.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/04-17-2008011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/BlockCastingDates3969854I309.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/EngineStampings.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/TransmissionVinandDateInfo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/TransmissionMainCaseandExtensionCas.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/VINNumber.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/RearAxleStamp.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/L78%20Engine%20Photos/BodyTag.jpg

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

427king,

Chuck, I need your email address. The site states you have met your limit on PMs.

Al Barlow

[jerry j]

Hi Al, The VIN stampings on the engine & trans are different, at best one or the other is not original.
Jerry

[Schonyenko2]

No red lines in 70. White stripe only. I can see in your photos that it had a SS tailpan. I can't see the holes in your before paint pics. Did you change it, or are the holes still there? I was thinking that the motor changeover happened later in the build year, somewhere around Jan. That Nov might still have 840 heads, and 163 intake etc,but I could be wrong. Most body changes took place around mid Jan.
Some will buy it without docs, some won't. Have you tried to find the original owner. Being somewhat connected to law enforcement, you may have a shot.

[ORIGLS6]

Not to be critical but why put a hydraulic cam in an L78?

[WILMASBOYL78]

291 heads and 569 intake are correct for that time frame....I don't know of any 70 L78 Novas with the older 840 heads or 163 intake. It is true there were many changes mid-year....door hinges, throttle cable, smog plumbing, F41 sway bar, etc....our black 70 4spd engine was built 1 day after this one and it has the 291's and 569.

wilma

[L78steve]

Shouldn't the crank pulley be a 291?

[92646]

What information are you looking for? I thought the L-78 would have a steel not a cast crankshaft? I did not see any mention of the type of pistons used, forged or cast and what compression ratio? When you say reconditioned on some of the key parts does that mean the parts still have the original part number stampings and are they original to the car? Can you provide pictures of the core support?
Mark Sheppard

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
I did not see any mention of the type of pistons used, forged or cast and what compression ratio?

[/ QUOTE ] Pics show 11 to 1 forged.... My question is this, if the pad stamp doesnt do it for certain people would the prescence of the right crank,pulley and cam make the stamp look more believable? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[JRSully]

I looked at that car last year, purchased off of Long Island.? owner had a hemi RR and a LS6 Chevelle as I recall. Car needed a ton of work and price was a bit steep but it looks like you have done nice job. As someone indicated previouslyl, see if you can get an NICB report and try trace ownership that way. Engine stamp looks real, don't know on the tranny. Good luck

[92646]

All I can find are pictures of what looks like when the motor was being torn down. Were the old pistons reused when the motor was rebuilt?
Mark Sheppard

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

The pistons that are in the engine now were in the engine when I bought it.

[LITTLE TOMMIE]

trans stamp looks to have little cross lines in each letter and number like it was engraved

[Mr70]

Your trans. pad stamp doesn't come across to me as being authentic.
Lots of abnormalities within it,the most obvious being the flat top number 3 used on the engine pad does not appear to be the same one used on the trans. pad.
They should match.

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

There have been a lot of comments regarding the transmission stampings. However, not many comments regarding the engine stamps which I'm sure you will all agree are the most critical and important. Any thoughts on the engine pad stampings?
Thanks

[Mr70]

That engine pad looks OK to me.

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Thanks for your opinion on the engine pad mr70.

[P.J.]

Me too
PJ

[HiHorse]

[ QUOTE ]
Your trans. pad stamp doesn't come across to me as being authentic.
Lots of abnormalities within it,the most obvious being the flat top number 3 used on the engine pad does not appear to be the same one used on the trans. pad.
They should match.

[/ QUOTE ]
The flat top 3 on the VIN derivative looks questionable on the pad, I have only seen round tops

[Mr70]

I've seen both fonts used,but that wasn't my point.
They should both match eachother,regardless.

[Schonyenko2]

I won't argue to the death on the heads, but I thought that some early novas had the 163 intake with the open element air cleaner. Does your blk nova built a day after this car have a dual snorkle air cleaner? Does it also have the arm/rod throttle? My dual snorkle late build had the cable. I thought other than the cable being a saftey in respect to a broken motor mt holding the arm open, that there would be a clearance issue with the arm/rod and the dual snorkle and the intake height.
It was my thought that the cable, and the D/S air cleaner came at mid year with the other changes. Some of those spurred by the introduction of the new camaro model.
So can you tell me when the drop dead change date is for the cable, and the D/S air cleaner. As it's possible that this D/S air cleaner is not correct for this early built car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

As an FYI, I made the air cleaner myself. It is not original to the car but I loved the look so I added it.

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
I won't argue to the death on the heads, but I thought that some early novas had the 163 intake with the open element air cleaner. Does your blk nova built a day after this car have a dual snorkle air cleaner? Does it also have the arm/rod throttle? My dual snorkle late build had the cable. I thought other than the cable being a saftey in respect to a broken motor mt holding the arm open, that there would be a clearance issue with the arm/rod and the dual snorkle and the intake height.
It was my thought that the cable, and the D/S air cleaner came at mid year with the other changes. Some of those spurred by the introduction of the new camaro model.
So can you tell me when the drop dead change date is for the cable, and the D/S air cleaner. As it's possible that this D/S air cleaner is not correct for this early built car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ken, our car has the original open element and throttle arm linkage....the change over for the throttle arm to cable took place around the end of Dec/69...our black car is 12C and it has this and our red 70 is 12C and it has the cable, so I would say santa brought GM the cables just in time for the holidays http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...2 of our other L78 Jan/Feb dates had original open elemnet air cleaners. As for the 163 intake....it was not installed on these 70 engines...I have talked to several people with early cars (sept/oct) and they have the low rise 569...I think the dual snorkle was phased in during the spring of 1970. Another place to check on the intake would be 70 L78 Chevelles since they were all early production...I have never seen a pic of a 163 on a 70 Chevelle....perhaps Rick can confirm this.

wilma

[92646]

Tom, the 1970 Nova I have now is a 03C and has the cable throttle with the open air element air cleaner. Is there any way to tell if the car came originally with dual snorkel air cleaner? Also you mentioned something about changes in the door hinges during the 1970 model year. I need to find a lower right door hinge because the door check is missing. What should I be looking for? One last question, if a car came with the radio delete did it still come with the antenna in the windshield? My car looks as if the radio and speaker were added to the car but the windshield has a built in antenna. Sorry to high jack the thread but this is great information.
Mark Sheppard

[Mr70]

Tom
No 70 L-78 Chevelle has ever been reported as having a 163 intake,nor the later released D/Snorkle.

Mark
From what I've found on 1970 vehicles:
When no Radio was ordered AND Tinted glass was not,the clear windshield will not have an internal antenna in it.
When no Radio was ordered,BUT Tinted glass was,the tinted windshield will have an internal antenna in it.

When a Radio was ordered BUT Tinted glass was not,the clear windshield will have the internal antenna in it.
When a Radio was ordered AND Tinted glass was too,the Tinted windshield will have the internal antenna in it.

[Ls6 Ragtop]

I have never heard of any 70 L78 engine having anything other than the 569 intake and 291 cylinder head, on a Chevelle or a Nova whatever. I don't claim to be an expert on Novas but the flat top 3 in the V.I.N. is not the only thing I have question about on the engine stamp. Maybe somebody with a known original engine in their Nova can compare the W on their block and see if it matches this cars. I personally think the trans stamp is good, you can even make out the 1 in front of the 0 if you look hard enough, but the engine stamp has a few things I don't think are right.
Chris

[Mr. Chevy]

My Nova is very early 3/70 production and has the throttle cable rather than the linkage... Also had an open element air cleaner according to the previous owner who bought it from the original owner in 1972.

Rich

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
I have never heard of any 70 L78 engine having anything other than the 569 intake and 291 cylinder head, on a Chevelle or a Nova whatever. I don't claim to be an expert on Novas but the flat top 3 in the V.I.N. is not the only thing I have question about on the engine stamp. Maybe somebody with a known original engine in their Nova can compare the W on their block and see if it matches this cars. I personally think the trans stamp is good, you can even make out the 1 in front of the 0 if you look hard enough, but the engine stamp has a few things I don't think are right.
Chris

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are some stamps to compare...maybe this will help.


CKO stamp

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/333693-cko.jpg

[WILMASBOYL78]

VIN on pad..

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/333694-vin.jpg

[WILMASBOYL78]

Tranny date stamp..sorry the VIN is not clearer.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/333695-trans.jpg

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Here is a side by side:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/SidebySide.jpg

[Bill Pritchard]

Al,

If yours is a restamp, it's the best one I've ever seen.

[rubbinisracing]

Lets see a picture of the top of the block without the heads. Surely you took a close up shot of the stampings showing the top of the block while engine was being assembled.

[427king]

There is a shot of that view in his pictures. It looks fine from what i can see,although pic is small.

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

rubbinisracing, You are right I did take pictures of the top of the block without the heads and here are the photos:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/topoftheblockwithouttheheads.jpg

[Rixls6]

Here's one to help use for comparison. I can't vouch for it's absolute authenticity.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/Rixls6/70NovaWillowRunL78Enginestamp.jpg

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Another side by side and another tranny photo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/SidebySide2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/3-13-08028.jpg

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Just thought I would show a photo from today of my vanity plate.

Also a photo of my wall of plates from past cars.

FYI, I am the administrator of the correctional facility in Maine that makes all of the state plates.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/04-20-2008002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/04-20-2008010.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/70%20L78%20Nova/MyPlates.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Nice collection of plates (and past cars for that matter)!

[x Baldwin Motion]

I am amazed after reading the http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gifwall of muscle to see a wimpy rechargable weed whacker!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[69 Post Sedan]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Hey, at least there is a fridge in the garage. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

This garage used to be a summer kitchen. It is an 1826 sea captains house. I still have photos of all of the cars which I have owned basically one at a time. I wish I had enough money to have a fleet of muscle cars but one at a time will have to do. The rarest was the "One of 4" which was a 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T, 426 Hemi 4-speed car. All original including paint with (2) buildsheets. The engine had been rebuilt by Dick Landy. Here are a few photos:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/ThreeRareCars.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/Painting-15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/Painting-8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/Painting-7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/Painting-6.jpg

[L-79 Nova]

Those prisoners do some nice restoration work!! Nice cars!! Ron...

[TDW]

Hey Al, you have had some nice cars. I'm liken that L78 Nova a bunch too. That "Bad 427" plate sure would look killer on my 427 Nova!!!

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Tony,

I just sold that last fall. It was a 66 Biscayne L72 Clone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/dillon14/Old%20Cars%201/5.jpg

[92646]

The more cars I see of yours, the more I like your work. I have NOVA L78 on my car out here in California.
Mark Sheppard

[John]

Now I like that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[1969l78]

What ever happened to the silver 69 l78 nova?

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
Your trans. pad stamp doesn't come across to me as being authentic.
Lots of abnormalities within it,the most obvious being the flat top number 3 used on the engine pad does not appear to be the same one used on the trans. pad.
They should match.

[/ QUOTE ]
I used to believe that. I've found several original cars, including 327 cars, where the stamps did not match. These were Camaros, but obviously the same process could be in place at WRN.
Pad is fine - compared it to a fourth really close stamp.

[Als 70 L78 Nova]

Finally got it on eBay. It's here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...709156&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AME SE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180241709156&rd=1)