Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

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Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

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If they had insurance, you would think so, but what if they had influence with the insurance company.
I have a firewalled 70 Nova SS that I am parting out. I don't know why the original owner did what he did, may not have had the insurance to cover it, whatever the case, it does not have a salvaged title.
A little diffent situation though, it was firewalled somwhere after '86 and never put back together.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

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Sam,
Assuming we were talking about cars that were rebuilt from a totaled car in the late 60s or early 70s, they did not have salvage titles then (at least not MN) so yes this could be very realistic.
Rick

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Very good point Sam. I forgot about Dan's car, but that is a perfect example to answer Sam's question. I don't know why the repair was done the way it was on some of these cars, but that is how they exist today.

My example is a real live Deuce, and the current owner bought it that way in '72 or so. It is of no consequence to him, he didn't do the damage or the firewall job.

So, somehow this level of repair is ok for some not for others, but Slim Shady's example of cowl patch panel repair is ok - or not?

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Anyone recall this little gem of a story? What will this car be when it reappears?


Short update on the HH car;

The original owner of this car confirms that it was a Tuxedo Black, X11 Copo that was purchased from Wallace Chevrolet in Linden, NJ. The owner removed the VIN (616462)and Trim Tag many years ago, and junked the car. The owner retained the bill of sale, dash bezel, the doors, a fender and possibly the transmission. The owner told each of us the same story, that there was no body and it was junked 20 years ago in northern NJ. These items were for sale, however, approx. 6 people passed on the deal because there was no firewall - much less an entire car. One person considered buying the items as memorabilia, and to prevent a rebody, but the price was prohibitive for that purpose.

About a month ago, I received word that somebody in NY claimed to have bought these items from the orig owner. Additionally, the claim is that the original body was found and pulled from a junk yard after 20+ years even though the orig owner did not remember where the body went. The plan is to restore the car, not sure if it will be done as the HH or factory.

Take it for what it's worth, but beware

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https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...0/fpart/1/vc/1

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Good points and ideas, but first I think a few definitions of the types of "repair"....rebodied, clipped, firewalled....whatever is in order before condeming one or the other. . Personally I think the above scenario using a rear clip from a donor car as a different thing than a "firewall car". . It seems like a firewall car may sometimes be a car who's firewall has been spliced and sectioned out to retain the hidden Vin also not disturb the Vin tag area itself?
Lets just get deep into it and present another scenario. . It's your lucky day. . You find a ZL1 Camaro deal. . Sadly it's become part of the ground sitting in a backyard since 1970 but it's genuine, the motor, trans, rear and tags are all there and are all THE originals. . The original owner has passed away and his wife is an old lady in an old folks home. . With the deal is a another '69 in the garage, the wife's car, it's a clean 307 car, even a stick! . Lucky again as she'd left the files w/ original bill of sales, window stickers and POPs for both cars on the visor of the car in the garage! . Oh, the old folks home just called too and the old lady has passed away, now at peace with the news her cars have found a good home. . It's all in your shop now....lets look over what we've got and see how we're gonna' fix this one Goob? ~ Pete

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

You handle the situation the same as you SHOULD if the bank made an error and added three zeros to your checking account balance. They probably won't find out (actually, they will), but what is the RIGHT thing to do. It is the people who don't do the RIGHT thing that we are talking about. Who here is one of those who would say nothing. I personally would like to know, so I can NOT purchase anything from you in the future.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

I personally feel it's difficult to comment on what someone should do in any real situations. . Whether right or wrong, lets hypothetically "repair" the imagined ZL1 by a rebody, firewalling....a few different ways and define what these repairs are termed. . I'm not into calling anything bogus....just feel clarification of the definitions is important and everyone can have their own opninon of what's right or wrong. ~ Pete

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Ok...Just thinking outloud here...

Car 1. All origional car like it was the day it rolled off the assembly line. Lets say worth $1,000,000

Car 2. Body all origional sheetmetal, but driveline, or interior, or other non body items bought to make car look as good or better than car 1. Still worth $1 mil. ?????

Car 3. Body needs quarters, maybe a floor pan or 2, driveline, interior, all trim and badges. When done looks better than car 1 or car 2. Still worth $1 mil. ???????

Car 4. Total rust bucket that you save the firewall and door posts and take other sheetmetal or car and weld to it. Looks better than any assembley line car could look when done. Still worth $1 mil. ?????

Car 5. Total rust bucket, needs everything, cut out firewall, transfer to good body, when done car looks like a million dollars. Still worth $1 mil. ??????

My take is Car 1 should be worth the most money.

Car 2 even though close has to be worth less.

Car 3 though good when done just has to be worth less. I think it falls into the catagory of new car drove off the lot and then gets hit in fender. Even though fixed and looks like new it won't bring the new price and shouldn't.

Car 4 and 5 to me fall in the same catagory, they are not the origional cars no matter how much they look like them. Maybe car 4 is worth a little more but I wouldn't want to be the one that bought that car for a mint and then found out later that the only thing origional on it was the door posts.

Now jump to the other side...I have these cars for sale.

Car 1 Has to be worth more than any other of these cars because: #1 Its all origional #2 I have it and its all origional #3 non of the other cars are all origional. #4 Did I mention its all origional.

Car 2 #1 My car is just like car 1 it has all origional sheetmetal #2 I spent $$$$$$$$ restoring this car back to all origional condition. #3 Did I mention that this car has all origional sheetmetal just like Car 1.

Car 3 #1 This car is just like car 1 #2 no expence was spared restoring this car, making sure that all nos parts were used. #3 Car 1 sold for $1 mil. and this car is just like it.

Car 4 and 5 #1 the body? yea we used all origional or nos sheetmetal to restore this car. #2 dirveline matching? yea all the codes are correct for that year car. #3 price? yea car 1 sold for $1 mil and this car looks better than it does.


Now quoting my old dad, "They say my farm is worth 10 times more than I paid for it. I want them to lay the cold hard cash in my had, then I will believe them"

Anything for sale is worth as much as someone at that moment is willing to pay for it.

With help from the good folks on this site I hope that no one gets burned with a car that is a outright fake. With the information out there I also hope that no one buys a rebody in any shape form or fashion thinking that it is a all origional car. But if they know the facts and still want the car for the price asked then far be it from me to put the car down.

There are some great guys on this site that know what they are doing when looking at a car. They are more than willing to help and at times go out of their way to make sure things are what they are supposed to be. Brian H. helped me out when I bought the Turbo Z and I will be forever thankful. It has turned into a buyer beware world, so don't be afraid to ask for help.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

The Unintentional Rebody Scenerio...
You find a nice fully documented ZL1 needing new floor and trunk pan and interior, ok, you get it done and take it for a ride and get side swiped. Now we put on a new front fender, driver door and rear quarter, primer it all up and go for another ride and get side swiped on the other side and we replace passenger door, front fender and rear quarter and primer it up and go for a drive and park it next to a high rise, you come out of the porn shop and, Bam, a freggin Piano falls on it and crushes the roof, hood and trunk. So we replace those and primer it up and back to the porn shop we go, now while reading our favorite books we come back out and the entire drive train gets stolen so now we go and find some date matching parts and put them in and go and get a new paint job. 10 years and 20 owners later the car sells and somebody gets this beautiful ZL1, fully documented and sells it as original for top dollar...Would it mater if it happened over time or at one time?