Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Les, you mention looking for the hidden VIN under the heater box. What's to say that all the hidden VINs were not restamped?
James

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I guess I saw a crowd of gapers and came to see what was going on. Was this the green Z that had the ss and z emblems on the front?????

I saw that car go over and was mesmerized by the color and lights etc. I remember thinking wow is that a beautiful car.

What ever happens it's a shame https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

James,
Your right I guess the hidden heaterbox VIN could be restamped? I was proceeding on the assumption there is some VIN somewhere on a camaro that couldn't be restamped without leaving evidence of tampering/welding some trail? Not being a camaro expert and in fact being a newbie camaro guy I leave that to the experts.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Gary posted his phone number numerous times in the original post

I did not write it down

He is a real person

there was a real sale of the items on ebay years ago

the same VIN appeared on a shell a year AFTER he sold the "memorabilia"

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I would submit if thats all true, all of us in the hobby have an interest in helping to protect buyers. If the buyer is in fact Ron Pratt he is good for the hobby in that he keeps buying cars in a terrible market which helps support the value's of all our muscle cars. He seems to be an avid collector and it seems to me we want all the collectors we can get in this hobby? If he buys what later turns out to be a re-bodied car he won't be happy and may be unhappy enough to get out of the hobby? I think we need more collectors and buyer not less. In that regard if he is the buyer and if anyone can contact him I think someone should let him know what we seem to know for him to form his own opinion? I think it needs to be done immediately before the car leaves Vegas if it hasn't and before the sale proceeds are issued to the seller.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why I am following this perhaps its like stopping to look at an auto accident on the side of the road?

Its my understanding the original shell absent the identity tags was sold and the identity tags with the paperwork was sold at another time??? Then we are presuming they were never reunited?????????

Anyway, NJSteve I think despite the boilerplate consignment K the buyer is a buyer in good faith and if his funds have not been disbursed BJ can and should withhold payment to the seller pending the cloud being removed from the title? In this case I think the cloud can be removed by removing a fender and checking for the hidden heaterbox VIN? That would be best answered by a Camaro expert? The way I read the K, BJ doesn't waive liability for selling a car with an illegally transferred VIN once they are put on notice. Absent notice I think they have no liability? In this case it appears BJ is on notice the car may have the VIN and identity of another car and I think if I was advising them I would advise them to withhold the funds and put the funds in escrow. I would also advise them to just go out and pull the fender while this is removal is being videotaped and look for the VIN. The NHP would also do it while the car is still here. If no VIN or wrong VIN I would tell the seller to pick up his car and give the buyer his money back. It doesn't matter whether the seller was a good faith seller in due course he is stuck with the car. I know BJ doesn't pay their sellers for at least a month so the funds should still be there. If the car has been shipped it needs to come back to Vegas and NHP can investigate its identity.
What do you think?


[/ QUOTE ]

Great point. I totally forgot about the delay in payment that the auction houses have. This is the exact reason it's there (and to collect that month's worth of interest on the money https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif).

Now that the auction house and the seller/buyer are all on notice of this issue, I bet that at least the NHP and the NICB will be there for an inspection. The NICB has a lot of experienced investigators that specialize in examining VIN swaps for chop shop cases. They have a lot of "vintage" car guys that know their vintage cars, too.

BTW, I mentioned this idea on the Camaro site:

This would be a great opportunity for someone to establish a "pre-certification" process that documents a car's body/drivetrain as "born-with" by establishing baseline conditions before any work is done on it, as well as during and after the restoration.

It's kind of like getting permits for building a house...you get the foundation OK'd then the electrical checked off, then the plumbing, etc., until the final certificate of occupancy is granted. You don't just build the house and get the paperwork afterwards to prove you did it correctly.

For example: you find that proverbial semi-rusty, barn-find, black and gold ZL-1 and that's when you have someone come out and photograph/document every square inch of it including all the confidential VIN locations. Then when it's in the midst of the metal work, he comes back again to check it off, and then after paint you get a certificate of originality (or occupancy if you aren't going to drive the darn thing https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif).

It's kind of like what we do here by photgraphically documenting our never-ending restoration stories. You are there to see every step from the find to the finish with no mysterious missing chapters.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I worked at a parts store back in Montana through the 1990's and had become known as a Camaro source. I had one person bring in pics of his 1969 Z/28 Camaro he had bought new. I am pretty sure it is same car. Flat hood rally green white stripes rally sport z. also it did have chambered exhaust on it. If you watch the part where they show the original photo the car has a Montana License plate on the front. The first two #'s on the plate signify the county where car is registered. I had the DVR record the event and had my wife watch the green Z/28. Because green is her favorite color. She is the one who noticed the original Conrad Montana license plate in the photograph.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember seeing what looked like a Montana plate in the old picture, too. They were showing that old picture to back up the fact that the car had both the RS emblem and the Z28 emblem on the grille.

So, did that guy in Montana still own the 69 Z when you were there in the 1990's, or had he sold it long before then? This could help determine whether or not the car that 'Gary' owned is the same car that was sold at the B-J auction....because I'm not sure if it was anything more than speculation as to whether the cars were the same or not https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif Perhaps this was verified, but between all the postings on several different websites, I don't remember for sure https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Here is where I am confused. Are we certain tha the VIN on the paperwork previously sold on ebay is the same as the car sold this weekend at BJ? If so? Was that same ebay paperwork sold with this car this weekend?

Exactly what items were previously sold on ebay as "memorablia" and were their VINs on those items that belonged on the car that just sold? Sorry for the confusion. With so may threads on so many forums with so many deletions I am confused?

I can't make out what is depicted in the picture on this thread regarding the paperwork? Was a trim plate sold with the items?

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

On page 11 of this thread their is a picture with a trim plate, protecto plate and another piece of metal, plus other documents? Does anyone know with certainty that the VINs on those items match the VIN on the camaro sold Saturday night? Whats the piece of metal supposed to be?

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

From what was posted in the CRG thread, the VIN of the B-J car was the same as the tags/paper sold by Gary years ago.

The piece of metal is the cutout section that contains the hidden VIN under the cowl.