Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

So, at the end of the day.......

Do they look good? Sound cool? And go really quick?

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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So, at the end of the day.......

Do they look good? Sound cool? And go really quick?

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There are alot of cars under 20 grand that fit that profile, its when you pay 6 figures for a "gas cap" that make you wonder.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Nobody on the firewalling question? . The cowl w/ tags as the only original part left is an old one in the car hobby....extensive restorations starting from no more than this is what some expensive Bugatti's, Duesenbergs and the like have been brought back from. . The've usually had to fabricate the other components though, not having the luxury of a mass produced donor car. . Usually all is well documented and the story is up front and available when sale time comes. . I'll go out on a limb and say, if not using a whole cowl w/ door posts and grafting "enough" of a vehicle to move the identity without disturbing the Vin tag and hidden Vin is what firewalling is, than this is where the line gets crossed. . Again anyone can do what they like but with the values now, the buyer should be aware in writing with any of the situations suggested. ~ Pete

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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Can someone define "firewalling" for me? . Is this as car #5 above....using a donor cowl and door posts but grafting in "enough" of the original car to include the hidden Vin also the undisturbed Vin tag itelf....or is it like car #4 which uses the original car cowl w/ posts??? . Thanks! ~ Pete

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My understanding of firewall is car #5. Taking the firewall with the vin tag and hidden vins of the super car and welding into a good body of a plain jane 6 cyl.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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Can someone define "firewalling" for me? . Is this as car #5 above....using a donor cowl and door posts but grafting in "enough" of the original car to include the hidden Vin also the undisturbed Vin tag itelf....or is it like car #4 which uses the original car cowl w/ posts??? . Thanks! ~ Pete

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My understanding of firewall is car #5. Taking the firewall with the vin tag and hidden vins of the super car and welding into a good body of a plain jane 6 cyl.

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Thanks....that's what I expected but it seems to be something that some don't want clarified? ~ Pete

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

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Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

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Believe me Sam it's a realistic scenario with a real world Supercar. Take into consideration what some of these cars cost when they were new, and that most of them shared essentially the same body shells as their much less expesive counterparts. If a Supercar got wrecked when it still had alot of value, or alot of $ was still owed on the loan it's entirely feasable that the repair would be deemed more economical by simply using the Supercar's original drivetrain and firewall, but most of the body from another wrecked, and less expensive model of the same vehicle. Again, back when the said Supercar was only a year or so old, it wasn't reconstructed with fradulent intentions in mind, or in an attempt to make something out of nothing, only to repair a very expensive, very badly damaged, essentially brand new low mileage car.

What isn't known is how or why this real world scenario occured, or what the true story of the original body is, only that it's been gone prior to the current owner picking it up when it was less than 2 years old. The interesting twist here, is that the current owner has never even really owned the "original Supercar" body only what's been grafted to the original Supercar cowl some 30 odd years ago. The car is definitely a "rebody" by all definitions with all but it's original cowl MIA, but the rub is it's all he's ever known, and it is the car he's owned and enjoyed driving for years.

Now the real hypothetical is what if the rebodied Supercar that got rebodied back in the first 1-2 years of the car's life goes on to make some real race history for itself with the "donor" body? What if we learned tomorrow that Ed Hedrick's DY sYc Camaro was rebodied when it was only a few months old? We do know it had the quarter panel smashed and replaced after a flat towing incident which is actually why that particular car was given to Ed, but let's pretend the damage was so extensive it required a firewall job before Don handed it over to Ed. If you found that car today, what would you call it? It would definitely still be a "rebody" by definition, but I probably couldn't help but call it the Holy Grail. Interesting discussion...

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

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Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

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Believe me Sam it's a realistic scenario with a real world Supercar.

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I stand corrected, there's no denying facts!

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Now the real hypothetical is what if the rebodied Supercar that got rebodied back in the first 1-2 years of the car's life goes on to make some real race history for itself with the "donor" body? What if we learned tomorrow that Ed Hedrick's DY sYc Camaro was rebodied when it was only a few months old? We do know it had the quarter panel smashed and replaced after a flat towing incident which is actually why that particular car was given to Ed, but let's pretend the damage was so extensive it required a firewall job before Don handed it over to Ed. If you found that car today, what would you call it? It would definitely still be a "rebody" by definition, but I probably couldn't help but call it the Holy Grail. Interesting discussion...

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Is the history of a car what makes it valuable? I think it is, and for proof I offer up the importance of original documentation and history in enhancing the value of any super car or muscle car. The Ed Hedrick car is certainly more interesting to people than, say, another Daytona Yellow Yenko with no docs but on the VIN list. And unrestored cars tend to draw more attention than the perfect restoration, because we are always interested to see a car as it was "in the day".

Based on this, I would say that your example of a car that was firewalled early in its existence, would still have its history, even though it is missing most of the sheet metal it left the factory with.

What is more valuable, a car with it's original "skin" or sheet metal, but a replacement engine, trans, and rear, or a "firewalled" car with it's original "heart" or drive train? Which would you rather have? I know there are some who say "I would never own a rebody" and there are others that insist on the original, documented drive train. Some even accept only unrestored cars! But for most of us, these are available in such limited number as to be nearly unattainable. SO, would you buy that COPO with most of its original sheet metal but non-original motor, or would you buy the one with all replacement sheet metal ("rebody") but the original motor, trans, etc.??

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

We all have our own opinions on what is a rebody and they will probably differ forever. Probably the most important thing to me would be that whatever was done be disclosed to a potential buyer. The buyer can then make his own decision on if it is a car he wants...

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

I kown of a 70 Chevelle 454 SS car that has a rusty vin tag that you can't read at all. The car was taken in for a CT inspection and ended up getting inpounded. The CT state PB told him he could get the car back if the hidden vin # matched the reg and paper work to the car,if not good by car hello prison. Lucky for him the hidden vin on the firewall (yes they took the car apart)and the vin on the tanny matched the paper work. If I was spending 50k or more on a car I would want to see hidding vins that match paper work. Ed

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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What is more valuable, a car with it's original "skin" or sheet metal, but a replacement engine, trans, and rear, or a "firewalled" car with it's original "heart" or drive train? Which would you rather have? I know there are some who say "I would never own a rebody" and there are others that insist on the original, documented drive train. Some even accept only unrestored cars! But for most of us, these are available in such limited number as to be nearly unattainable. SO, would you buy that COPO with most of its original sheet metal but non-original motor, or would you buy the one with all replacement sheet metal ("rebody") but the original motor, trans, etc.??

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I'd put more of a priority/importance on having THE factory original matching drivetrain. That's the heart of the car and what contributes to the driving experience. That's what these SS and COPO specials are all about.

I've read the phrase here about "putting the tag and engine in a base 6-cylinder body....". Pretty much all of the time, the bodies weren't differentiated between on a COPO, SS, or plain low-optioned car. The shells all went through Fisher body, got welded up the same, painted the same, and then were put together. The bodies are the same, and the difference was in what's bolted to them for options.

Is a "rebody" less of a sin if the drivetrain was transferred to the shell of another COPO/SS/whatever than a body that wasn't originally built that way?

More rhetorical questions that no one will ever agree on. It's a shame the whole financial side distracts people from appreciating the art, machinery, and driving experience aspect of the cars. I thought about that today as I took my Nova out for a cruise. No matter what I did, I just wasn't able to read any numbers on the firewall while rowing that Hurst through the gears and feeling that big block push me back in the seat. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif