Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

The best thing to do is not buy a car at one of these places no matter what the documentation is, once they get a bad reputation it will ruin the value of the car down the road. When you try to sell the car and a prospective buyer finds you bought it at a "classic car dealer" they may tend to shy away, I know I would! Try to buy a car off a private owner if you can or buy a car that you can trace the origin, if it needs restoration get it done by a reputable restorer, which there are a couple that frequent this site.(my opion)

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I wonder what the original protecto plate for the cloned L89 convertible is worth. It documents the car as a 327 210 hp powerglide car with a 307 non posi rear car. Mint condition all #'s matching. Seriously, if someone needs it, I may be able to get you in contact with the person that has it.

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

T Billigen is right just heard the camaro internet 3/16/02 show Jerry Mac Neish was on and said that a guy in Cal bought a car from a dealer in new jersey that has changed names and HAS a history of selling fraudulent cars he went on to say that that new owner did not have Jerry look at the car before he bought the car when he got the car the cars motor did not run right the brakes did not work and all the numbers were played with.now it will cost more money for a law sute than Jery whould charge to look at it in the first place he said that people should do there home work before looking to buying a car. show was great
Norm

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I believe the car was sold at Atlantic was sold by the owner not the dealer. The level at which the car was cloned, would make it virtually impossible to detect. Broach mark and stamping fonts are reproduced perfectly now. The corvette people now call restamped blocks "restoration blocks". I doubt the "experts" could have detected this restamp...they have been fooled before!

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

The car that Jerry Mac Neish was sold at a dealer not atlantic city he stated thet the restamped was very very poor

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

That is probably the 68 z which has been discussed in another thread.I believe it is advertise on cars on line as "alert# matching"

[Edited by paceme (03-20-2002 at 10:22 AM).]

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

yes paceme I think that is the car that they were talking about what scares me as the price of these cars gos up how far will people go to clone a car? will get to the point where you just can not tell if its real or a clone they will get better in restamping remanufacture trim tags pop plates
the only wat to stop it is to list all known vin numbers and if they go as far to try to remanufacture a vin plate then they will have gone to far and be shut down and go to jail end of story any one who sells fraudulent cars gives the hobby a black eye
as for me its about the love of these cars and not so much about the money
Norm

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR> Orig posted by Speedrx:
Has everyone seen this regarding Future Classics?

http://www.cars-on-line.com/68chev5581.html

Buyer Beware of this dealer! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe this is the car Jerry spoke of.

Dennis

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

That is the car. Very poor stampings on the engine and trans, especially the trans. The word is out on this board and just about everywhere to stay away from that dealer. Word of mouth is either your best or worst advertisement.....................RatPack......... .....

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I will be going to Future Classics this weekend now that everyone is talking about them again. I have to see what they have new. I have to admit, they do get some good looking cars there. CHUCK, I will check out the 70 Camaro L78 car you were asking about. I'll let you know. I am about an 45min-1 hour from them so its not a big ride.
Has anyone seen some of the stuff at that TRM Classic's place? I called on a car they had recently. It was a Dusk Blue X22 SS car that he was "making" into an RS. He sent me pictures and the car didn't even have the correct RS taillights and back up lights. The engine compartment was a horror show. He also said he will send me a picture of the under side after he is done "blacking it out". He wanted high $20's for a half assed restoration with a non-original motor. That is frightning. Now that sounds like a quick fix and sell job to me! I just noticed that he still has the car but now took the RS package back off and is selling it as a COPO clone. I wish I can just "black out" the under side of my cars and get high $20's! WOW! Talk about trying to make a buck! OH, and Hello Paul, Welcome! - Jon

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Shor, The screws that were used on that particular trim tag were sheetmetal screws that you would find in your local hardware store. I don't know the history of the car but when you see something like that it just makes you wonder. Camaroking, Your up on things! That car was traded in at Future and a friend of mine ended up with the car and I purchased it a week after he had it. I sold it at Atlantic City Feb 2001. It was restored by Bob Harris and it was a Gold Spinner car. KP

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Thanks Jon!!

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

That L89 convertible was not restored. That is an original 2000 mile car. From what I hear, the hood (and tailpanel) are the only non-original paint on it.

Paceme: I'd be interested in the #'s off of the original POP for the database, if at all possible. No hurry.....

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Who did the job on the L89? Anyone know?

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Dave Tinnell did it for a Customer in Arkansas.

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Chuck,

I got some info off that Daytona Yellow 70 Camaro SS L78 at Future Classics for you this weekend. I was told the car was restored about 1990-1991. The person who restored the car is available to speak with. The current motor is an LS6 454 GM crate motor available at that time (90-91). They were told by the previous owner who did the car that it is the original M21. It has a 12 bolt with 4 leaf springs on each side. Gears are 3.73, it was supposed to be an original 4.10 car. 150 Speedo and 6500 redline tach, Hurst shifter, 51 51 Paint and 711 Trim. I asked about the sheet metal screws holding the trim tag, they said thats how it came in. Over all, a clean, nice looking car. It looks like a frame off restoration. Any questions email me.

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Again, we see fraudulent or alleged fraudulent vehicles. I say go to the "shady"
dealers that you know of and look at everything.
It will keep your eye sharp.
It is a shame what is going on in this hobby,
we just have to be careful. Paul, my hat's off to all the things you went through in your quest for Camaro's. But we all have to remember one thing, these are cars, everybody, just cars. There are alot of more importaint things involved in life; God, family, friends, ect. I guess at this point since there is so much nonsense going on in this hobby, I think the real cars will double in value..............Joel

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Are you saying Bob at camaro specialties put the screws in the trim tag?, or he fixed it?

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Did every one leave at the same time?

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I dont know a thing about this particular car but when I painted my last truck I drilled out the rivets that held the tag, painted, then reinstalled with rivets from the hardware store. Stupid, but the truck wasn't anything special so no fraud was intended, I just didnt want the paint to chip around the tag. Maybe this is the case with this car but I don't have any idea.

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I had recently spoke with the guy who restored the 1970 L78 Camaro that is at Future Classics. I did a bit of digging, but I got the guys phone number in Florida. The car had a lot of NOS metal replacement and the cowl area was one of them. In the corner of the windshield, typical rust spot, and continued by the tag area. The car was originally sold in Minnisota and was raced. The car didn't have the original motor when this guy restored it (The first owner had removed it because he had a lot of money invested into it and then put it into another body). He replaced all the metal on the car that was rusted with NOS parts (he works for a GM dealer and bought all the parts through the dealership in the late 80's-early 90's) and didn't take the time to find rivits to re-attach the cowl tag and just used screws. The car had won 1st place at some Florida Super Chevy Show in 91 or 92(?) in the Stock Class.
So, that is the story with the cowl tag screws on that car. It wasn't the dealer who messed with the car, just the guy who restored it didn't take the time for that little bit of detail. I am sure there many cars out there just like this one. Why I just did way to much research on a car that I have no interest in, I don't know. Chuck asked for info if any one was at the dealer and I just took the ball and ran with it. I need to get a life! - Jon

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Muscle Car Jon, Tried to Email you directly, but you have none. Thanks for taking the time to check out the Future Classics 1970 L-78 Camaro. Other than the 6500/7000 Tach and the L-78 (Norwood) Trim Tags there is little that make the Car different from other 1970 SS Camaros....All the engine parts including the SMOG (A.I.R.), TCS, Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner are usually missing and if you did have the correct parts it would be an easy car to clone. The one I bought was featured on the cover and inside article in the July 1991 Muscle Cars magazine. It is an unrestored survivor and I've seen the VIN # stamped on the engine block and trans...Of the 600 originally built I suspect that less than 50 survive with the original engine....
Regards to all, Chuck

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

The new owner of the L89 convertible just contacted me (via another person). Had to break the news to them that it wasn't real....

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

OUCH!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/crazy.gif

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

Kurt, why did he contact you. Had he known about the car and was getting a confirmation from you. What are his plans, if you can share them?

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/ima...ns/shocked.gif

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

From the email:
A friend of mine asked me to do a little digging online to see if I could find out some back ground on a 69 camaro he just bought at auction. I saw your web site and told him about the info you were collecting and he gave me some info on his car to pass along to you. For starters its as I said a 1969 camaro L89 car, its apx.90% original ......


Sounded familiar right away. https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/frown.gif
I confirmed the VIN, then told them what it was, haven't heard anymore.

Kurt

Re: Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?
 

I thought that car sold at the Atlantic City auction and I didn't think it was Future Classics that sold it at that point but I could be wrong. My point was that the car never had the p-o-p when it was at one of the other consignment shops and then it suddenly did have a p-o-p when it showed up at FC. I'm not inferring that FC had the p-o-p made up but it could have been the previous owner that got taken and wanted to get his money back. I still think it is fraudulent to misrepresent a car like that with bogus documentation. It's getting scary out there guys/gals, makes me think I'll be holding onto my JL8 for quite some time(if it ever gets done).