Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

While the word "provence" is a word some hate, it really should be one of the "cores" of determining value as far as I'm concerned. I don't think color and whether equiped with a 4spd or auto should be as important as paperwork and being able to unequivocally prove a car is what it is spposed to be. What is worth more..a reported Hugger Orange COPO with no paperwork, but a trim tag that falls into a certain build range....or...a 1969 L78 with real docs (not just a new looking POP) that is Mist green and an auto..I'll take the L78 all day, every day. I firmily believe we are entering into a time of declining prices on most of the cars. I don't see how prices can continue to go up, when there is so much apparent fraud and disception going on..restamped parts, faked trim tags, added POP's, etc. Therefore the cars that have "history" or "provence" will continue to appreciate (not as fast as we have seen since 2001 though), while the cars that don't have that sort of paper will loose value. Also there is a certain point when the people holding the disposable income to buy a collectible car will determine what is the "envogue look," and consequently the prices will be set accordingly.

I think we are seeing the prices reflect that the musclecar hobby is by far a group of older, white guys that were babyboomers. While as of right now they control the disposable income to buy 50k dollar "original" cars, the tides are shifting. More and more 20-30 somethings are wanting the look of a 1969 Camaro but without all the associated BS of building a "trailer queen" original car. I would bet that the guys that were building "original" Model T's in the 1950's and 1960's never thought people wouldn't want their cars as collectibles..how many get sold today? Have the prices appreciated in respect to inflation or income levels from 1950 to 2004? Doubt it..

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

[ QUOTE ]


Heck, if I won the Powerball I'd be down there next year with the Big Dogs and I'd probably drop more than $170,000 for that orange Hemi Superbird! I'd be like that guy who bought all four of the Callaway Corvettes for over $600,000! That'd be really fun to do, especially if money was no object. I'd be buyin' cars and high-rollin' and all those good looking women with the plastic surgery would be checkin' me out and...and...


[/ QUOTE ]

As much as it would be fun to get in on the action, I think that has to be one of the last places I'd actually buy a car, I don't care if I'm on TV for 15 seconds. I'd sooner search out the nice cars and by them right from the seller.

Jackson himself is nothing but a low life, trying to pump up the prices and his commission, makes me sick watching that guy smile and laugh the whole time. The announcers are so interested in the top selling cars $$$$$, big deal, I'd be more interested in the 'Best Deals'...but there probably isn't any there anyway.

$400,000 for a street rod?? what kind of resale is there in that 10 years down the road? Idiots.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

to me the deals to be had are from the local papers and maybe the swaps meets or just out driving around and looking

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Jeff, I've heard the same flat fee auction commission also. As an example, I can understand how the "69 Z28 thread for $112,000" subject of this thread is possible. Two bidders that are partners in any car can bid each other up to sky's the limit, knowing with the flat fee arrangement, they won't be having to pay the seller&buyer commission. Their hope of course is that some sucker will jump in and bid at those high numbers. But if no one does, after the auction they still own the car and can advertise it later as a car that sold for $112,000 at auction. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

I wonder if this has happened to a number of these unrealistic car sales price. It seems we may not know what were true sale prices here. Is $400K for a street rod a real sale? Why pay that as isn't it possible to get one built for less than $100K? Things don't seem right here, in my opinion.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I think Charley was selling some of his old stash out in the lot !!!! Got those folks all juiced up for bidding !

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Hey redline, love your hood! I had two NOS inserts a few years ago, man are they hard to find!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

the selling of the zepher at 400k is extreme, BUT "IF" the yellow z was a real jl8 car, with a crossram installed, and in the condition the car was in it WAS worth 112k.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

kevin, i agree, an arrangement between the buyer and seller on that one.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

There was no agreement on the Zeppher. It was a real sale to a guy that is gonna put it in his collection. All those big sales were real. Barrett is by far the big dog in town and is really pushing the No reserve . I know dealers that have been selling there and if they buy one of their cars back they are paying full amount. Take it or leave it because they are the big dog. I'm sure there was well over 100K in that Zeppher. If it was built at a Pro Builders shop there was probably over 200K. There are People spending over 1 Mil getting street rods built. The 55 Numad is one example. You would have to be there to see how crazy the market there was. We are so focused on our #'s matching stock opinions. Others have opinions that they will pay more for a really neat looking car. We have our opinions but it doesn't necessarily mean we are right. I don't think the guy that paid 112K for that Z cares what the market is or if it was real,. It matched his Yellow Jacket is the reason he gave. I spoke to the seller of the 260K Shelby with the Aluminum 427. He was like the Cat that Ate the Canary. He was on cloud nine and in shock. There were several real bidders on that car at over 200K. These People don't care if they lose money down the road on them. They have enough money that the cars could all burn tomorrow and they would move on. Craig Jackson is up there excited right there along with everybody else in the room. There are also cars that for whatever reason sold for dirt cheap. That is what brings People to auctions.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

there are plenty of yellow z's out there that he could have bought for a lot less money. he bought the car because of several factors. yellow was one, jl8, had a great looking crossram setup on it (not aftermarket stuff) era dated, as he said so proudly that the car was gonna set next to his vettes, why? because of the items i just mentioned, not just because the car was yellow, so numbers or rare options did play on his reason to purchase "no matter what the price" as he stated. the zepher was glorious looking no doubt, but many good resto shops could have made it (look) that way, what was the big deal about? i'll tell you, the massive bad boy v12, i don't think they are to many of those left today. usually options or rarity will influence a large amount than over the way something looks.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

When you get down to it, a lot of people have a different outlook on life since 9/11. And people that have the means to buy or build what they want, are doing it. No reasons needed. If you don't enjoy the vehicle you have, then why own it? These hi-tech, ultra clean street rods are cool and very easy to drive. I like both original and rare cars as well as a modernized classic.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Well said.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I have heard a number of high profile collectors speak about the "no reserve" flat fee commision agreement. I don't know if it is true or not, as I have never brought a car to auction. So maybe I am just too suspicious when I hear sales prices that seem unjustified. But to each their own; as guys with unlimited funds have every right to spend it on whatever they want to if it makes them happy. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you get down to it, a lot of people have a different outlook on life since 9/11. And people that have the means to buy or build what they want, are doing it. No reasons needed. If you don't enjoy the vehicle you have, then why own it? These hi-tech, ultra clean street rods are cool and very easy to drive. I like both original and rare cars as well as a modernized classic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with that!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif
Sam

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I know some of the smaller auctions sometimes have agreed to reduce fees if the dealer has to buy the car back but Barrett is so big that they are at the Mercy of nobody. 10 Dealers could refuse to bring cars to Barrett and it would have no effect. I have a Friend that is a Dealer and he has alot of Consignment cars. He tried to do Barrett with Reserves and was told they could only be listed with no Reserves. He explained to them that he does not own the cars and the car owners have net prices that he has to get before he can sell their cars. If those net prices were not met, they would have to made up out of his pocket. He could effectively be Bankrupted if everything went wrong. He did not bring any cars and only a couple People asked me why he wasn't there.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

RUMOR here in the NW is that sometime in the last few months 6 guys ponied up $20k each and bought the Zepher for the purpose of taking it to the auction. REMEMBER I said RUMOR. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif Jim

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

thank you for the pictures https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Charley.......I really enjoyed viewing them...

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

[ QUOTE ]
RUMOR here in the NW is that sometime in the last few months 6 guys ponied up $20k each and bought the Zepher for the purpose of taking it to the auction. REMEMBER I said RUMOR. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif Jim

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I was thinking of something along those lines, There are alot of members on this site and with all the knowledgable people here it would be a no-brainer to get as many people as we can and pitch in maybe 5-10K each and start buying up cars for the purpose of making money. Kinda like a stock club but with cars. We have people all over the country and in Canada to look and check out cars and with the prices the way they are I would rather do this than buy stocks. May even get enough cash to build a track with storage buildings and rent that out for special events..I believe there is something like this for road race cars down in Texas somewhere where everyone owns a piece and they can also use all the different cars for a certain yearly additional fee and run them around the track. You could even get into the restoration end.
Anybody??
Sam

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

We are hauling a Chevelle LS6 Convertible to the BJ auction in March and they clearly stated that the buyer and seller fee will apply if the buyer purchases his own car. They also did not want the car to go across the block with a reserve. They generally put lots of pressure on you to remove the reserve when the bidding stalls. This generally brigns the bidding back to life a bit.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Barrett Jackson is doing a auction March 18-21 in Palm Beach Florida. I was told that GM is selling off a bunch of cars that they have had tucked away.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

[ QUOTE ]
Barrett Jackson is doing a auction March 18-21 in Palm Beach Florida. I was told that GM is selling off a bunch of cars that they have had tucked away.

[/ QUOTE ]
I will be there, anyone else? Nothing like Palm Beach in the spring https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif
Sam

So who wants to buy a legit 69 Z2JL8 crossram car?
 

I'm still surprised at the money that car got at BJ. I've always wanted a COPO car but could only afford the JL8 I bought from Charley at the time. I know I wanted to have something rare and different but I did not expect the values to climb like they have. I just need to get the car finished.
http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/jeffh...barecar001.jpg

Re: So who wants to buy a legit 69 Z2JL8 crossram car?
 

Hey Jeff,
Is this the stage your car is presently in? How backed up is the shop you have it in?
Sam

Re: So who wants to buy a legit 69 Z2JL8 crossram car?
 

The car should have the new quarters and tailpanel installed by now and should be hitting the paint booth in March. He's working on several 69 Camaros at the same time(2 JL8's, L89 conv, Pace Car, RS conv). It comes down to having the money to pay for the work. I need to find out where these guys at BJ get their line of credit from, sign me up!

Re: So who wants to buy a legit 69 Z2JL8 crossram car?
 

I understand that the GM cars will be there. I would like to bring a Cobra, but it sounds like the auction may be geared to GM cars.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Without trying to offend anybody in the group, I am going to put my $.02 in. I am a dealer, and have been selling cars at Barrett-Jackson for over 10 years. THEY DO NOT DO FAVORS FOR ANYBODY! That would include offering a "flat fee" buy-back or any other such nonsense. I know, I sold 3 killer big dollar muscle cars there this past weekend, all no reserve. There is no rhyme or reason to what the retail buyer will pay in the crazy world of lights, camera, auction. My cars (IMHO) were very well documented, very well restored (9k mile Green Hemi 'Cuda, 1-owner; Duntov Award winning Vette 425HP Rdst with ALL paper and #'s;70 Judge frame -off and perfect car, etc...), but that made no difference to the buyers there. For instance, the buyer of my Judge ($47,500+ commission) came over AFTER he bought it and wanted to know if it "was really a Judge" and said he bought it because he thought they were cool when he was a kid.The buyer of my Vette said his wife liked the color, and had no idea what the significance was of the paperwork, awards, or the 425 HP 427. And don't ask me why my 'Cuda brought $52,500 less than a lesser car with many incorrect items.

I am also a friend of Charley's, and we stood there taking it in, as we always do. No sense trying to analyze it, people are strange. If you are not a "car guy", you act on impulse more than knowledge. If you can afford that luxury, you obviously have either great luck or have been sucessful in other endeavors that allow you to just do what you want.If only people would give drug addicts or alcoholics as hard of a time for wasting money on that crap as car guys give the "checkbook collector" for paying "too much" this world would be a better place!

What it boils down to is this: Comparing what happens at Barrett-Jackson to the real world is like comparing our climate to the one on the moon.Let's take it for what it is and not start spreading rumors around about things we don't know about. The only thing I feel confident enough to say is that Charley knows what is up with the seller of the "L89" and "JL8" cars, he has a long track record of bogus cars and unhappy customers. I must like to sleep more than him, and I have never thought that having eyes in the back of my head would make me more attractive, so I keep telling the truth! They are just cars, and having to go out in public, having pride and integrity, and the thought of maybe someday having to account for my actions with to a higher power somehow makes building B.S. cars with B.S. papers seem not worth the few extra bucks. Just my opinion!

Let's keep it clean and not judge a man because he wants to spend HIS money, no matter how much or how little, on a car he likes. It doesn't hurt anybody. Likewise, by keeping on the truth and not rumors , and watching each other's back, we can be a litte smarter and stay one step ahead of the con artists WITHOUT sounding like a group of gossiping, jealous old ladies!

In the mean time, Charley has purchased a few sheets of P-O-P paper for his laser printer, if anybody needs some docs for there car. $29.95 while supplies last.

Your worn out AZ correspondent,
Colin https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Feel better now Colin ? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I thought it was even the announcers last year that said the owners had the opportunity to buy back their own car. And that's why there were so many cars listed with no reserve. Why would BJ not allow a dealer to bring multiple cars if he wants to list them with a reserve?

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Hey Colin,
Do you have a website from which you deal through?
Sam

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Yes, Charley, I do!

At least there is not a YALE in my garage, just a Phoenix!

Colin https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

www.classicauto-sales.com is my web site.

Sorry for the shameless plug, but you asked!

Colin

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I just spoke to a Friend that says he thinks the JL8 car is a real one from Simi Valley that he didn't buy years ago. In fact he sold me the crankshaft out of it when I bought a real JL8 Z from him that Jeff Hansbury now has. He also had the steering column and Rosewood wheel out of it. A Kid owned it at the time and was doing a full custom so he didn't need any of the orig stuff. It had no paperwork so he didn't buy it.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I assume you're referring to DH. I sure hope that JL8 was a legit car, especially for the hobby in general. Any idea what the VIN was on that car? Curious to see another LA built JL8.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Yes it was Dave..I don't know the vin.

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Charley,

Do you know if the kid who owed the car works at a Dealership? If so I know who put that car back together. I tried to find that car on Saturday but, I think the guy move it off site. If that is the car I think it is, it will make a grown man cry. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif By the way I like your Yale and Barrett was packed on Saturday. You could not move. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

I found it a bit odd that I could not find the Winters mark on the intake manifold......
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Charley, several years ago, there was a fella up in Ventura County area that was an old Hollywood actor who purchased a Z28 from a dealer waaaay back when. I met a friend of his who introduced me to him once way back in the early 90's and got him to sell me one of those AC TALL X-Ram air filters(un-opened boxes) he had for my then Azure X33 X-Ram set-up. He had about 20 of them; they were spares to his X-Ram Z28. That was the car he purchased and had then. That car was a Black Z.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

There was a black RS/Z that went through B/J back in the mid 1990's that was also a LA built car. That car was also a JL8, crossram car with a lot of options. It was owned by a FL collector that had home up this way. Car didn't have any paperwork either. Any thoughts on who has it now?

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

[ QUOTE ]
I found it a bit odd that I could not find the Winters mark on the intake manifold......
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it a polished crossram?

Re: 69 Z28 Sold for $112,000
 

Colin...I agree...BJ is not the real world.....but I have to admit....you probably wouldn't look too bad with eyes in the back of your head.....you would only need an extra pair of sunglasses when you are driving that ugly little blue Ferrari...you really should sell that so no one knows you actually own it !!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif