|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I'll do you one better. PM me an address, and I'll copy every page of title searches I've done for that car. That should get you well on your way. I can supply the phone # of the guy who was offered the car in an envelope too, but I'm not putting that info in a post!
PS: just so you know I'm not bs'ing ya, do the names Carmine, Richard, and Donna connect with anything? |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim - That's the very reason that a continuous chain of owners and statements of condition, originality, etc. is soooo critical to the pedigree of a car. Everything else can be made up, but owners with phone numbers (so that you can talk to them and/or their heirs) and sworn statements are hard to fake. </div></div>
The bottom line is there needs to be physical inspection of the car. Owners recollection of a car can help but they can fade over the years. Rather than debate this why don't you start the physical inspection process and validate your claim/position. By repeatedly stating this is not a rebody proves nothing. You probably spent several hours defending the car when a simple documented inspection would prove or disprove your theory. Is there a reason you have chosen not to do this up to this point. This thread isn't going anywhere without a documented inspection of the cars integrity. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
ok, it took me a while to read through this whole thread. I hope time and stripping the car down, can prove out what it is. As far as tags in an envelope, who is to say the car was detroyed when the envelope sale happened. I personally have seen where some joker took numbers out of one car (that would fit in an evelope) and then ended up and a better body, and then I found the original body. So to me, just because someone offered part of a car in the form of an envelope, I would still have the open mindset the car still could have still existed to this day. The car in question needs to be stripped and deciphered. good luck on rolling the dice.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Possibly, but a lot of things are possible - I hope the original body does exist somewhere! This isn't the first time a Yenko has been for sale in an envelope - unfortunately. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
OK Marlin - just so that you're sure to get my mailing info: Bruce Eilenberger, 180 Blossom Hill Drive, Lancaster, PA 17601. Moderators: please do not change or alter this thread in any way as it is now evidence in the investigation of a felony. I would advise anyone who has contributed personal knowledge of this car to write down copious notes of the details of their involvement. You may forward them to me or just save them for later. This scum bag stuff is ruining our hobby and it has to stop! I can't believe that leader(s) of this great site would allow attempted felony to go on and not do anything to try to stop it.
Marlin - Donna would have owned the car 10 years ago, just before her marriage. I won't be posting on this thread any more. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK Marlin - just so that you're sure to get my mailing info: Bruce Eilenberger, 180 Blossom Hill Drive, Lancaster, PA 17601. Moderators: please do not change or alter this thread in any way as it is now evidence in the investigation of a felony. I would advise anyone who has contributed personal knowledge of this car to write down copious notes of the details of their involvement. You may forward them to me or just save them for later. This scum bag stuff is ruining our hobby and it has to stop! I can't believe that leader(s) of this great site would allow attempted felony to go on and not do anything to try to stop it.
Marlin - Donna would have owned the car 10 years ago, just before her marriage. I won't be posting on this thread any more. </div></div> No, it's my thread, I started it. Moderators, please delete the ENTIRE thread if Bergy is gonna TRY to turn this into evidence in a criminal investigation. It sounds like you took a chance on this car and it's starting to look like you got taken out of pretty serious chunk of change. You gambled and lost and now you're trying to blame somebody else. In the early Eighties, '69 Camaros were everywhere and NOBODY was swapping firewalls and cowl sections to save them. Now you're implicating the "leaders" of this site about a car I don't think they know a whole lot about! It's your problem and stop trying to drag other people into your mess! |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Bergy...Just what are you saying ? Are you wanting members of this site to testify in court because you bought this car ? You want us to jump thru these hoops for you why ?
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<span style="font-weight: bold">Lets see bergy on 8/16 you had this to say about the car:</span>
I actually parked right next to that car at a show in Intercourse (no kidding), PA last month! I was so intrigued by it (140 mph speedo, single 3/8 fuel line,etc) that I called Bob Harris from the show to discuss it. We decided that it may be a copo, but there were a ton of wrong things as well. I even told the owner that he may have a very valuable car on his hands and he should contact Jerry. Arghhhhhh - shoulda, coulda <span style="font-weight: bold">Then on 8/17 you felt this way:</span> The owner was a very nice guy, and I was really trying to help him - not buy a copo cheap. I told him that the speedo was from a very valuable car and he should call JM to have him look at it. There were some good signs of it being a copo, but the rear was wrong, radiator, heater box, etc. When I saw that the firewall wasn't pierced for the cowl hood wiring - it looked un-copo like. My bad (really bad)! <span style="font-weight: bold">Then on 8/28 after careful inspection you felt this way :</span> I just returned from inspecting the car. It is not sold and the vin tag does not match the body stamps. The owner is a great guy and is honest as the day is long. He bought the car in March and he just wanted to drive it for the Summer and then re-sell it. To him, it was just a Z28 clone with great paint and a great sound. Right now, he just wants to get his 25k back out of the car. Frankly, 25k is a stretch - except for that pesky vin tag and the original 140 mph inst carrier. If anyone wants to buy the car and then try to find the original body - contact me. The body vin is 587974 - finding that car may provide a clue to where the orignal body is. The owner isn't a car guy and doesn't want to be bugged with a lot of questions that he can't answer. There's nothing in it for me - just trying to help a friend. Maybe you folks out there in the SYC community feel the same way. Thanks, bergy <span style="font-weight: bold">Then on 10/6 you posted you purchased the car after another thorough inspection and concluded the following:</span> Just a quick update on this car - I inspected it very thoroughly and it had just enough copo attributes that I decided to buy it. Tank has never been out of the car and it has an original single 3/8 fuel line & sending unit plus many other little things. A few things that realy bugged me about the car have been resolved. The tail pan didn't have the extra muonting holes, but I now have old photos from the guy who painted it showing him in the process of replacing the pan. Obviously, the donor body stamp on the cowl needs to be cleared up. I can see that there is a lot of welding around the cowl section though. I was able to speak to the brother of the person who last registered the donor vin (the vin stamped on the cowl) and he told me that the car was in a bad wreck with a logging truck back in 1981 (the car hasn't been registered since then). It was totaled in the rear and the only thing salvagable was doors forward. The car that I have has original, unrepaired rear frame rails. So - I'm encouraged that someone salvaged the firewall out of the donor car and put it on the Yenko for some reason. Still searching for the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. I'm taking tons of photo documentation and certifying statements from everyone that provides data. Thanks to those who have PM'd me info and leads. <span style="font-weight: bold">Now somehow the members of this site are responsible for you purchasing this car....really.....</span> |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just one answer - nope! This car was for sale in an envelope 10-12 years ago. I don't need to see it. </div></div>
"OW" "OW" "OUUUUCH" As the little piggy screamed..Wee..Wee..Wee Wee..Wee [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif[/img] |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Bergy, If the Yenko was originally rally green and the body is the original as you claim, there will undoubtedly be some evidence of original paint under the door panels, wheelhouses, floor pans, quarters, etc. that could be easily seen with very little effort... heck, take out the back seat and you should see some rally green somewhere if its the real body. I mean sure a "donor" body could have been rally green too, but that's a pretty long shot. Bottom line is, if the body you have there shows evidence of Rally Green being the original color it would go a long way in making me believe the body is original. Should take 5 minutes to check. Post some pics.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Here’s another minor suggestion (if it hasn’t already been checked)…
If the rear portion of the body is basically original and unmolested and the gas tank has never been previously removed, then check the date code on the corner of the gas tank. This won’t prove anything one way or another, but if the date code is way off (too early or too late), then you have another piece of the puzzle to work with…... Plus, you don’t have to take anything apart to get that info… |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
how bout spend 10 mins and pull the fender atleast...
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Just a little FYI in @84 that car was listed for parts in the Sell-it or Tradin times. A very good Camaro buddy went to see it the night the add hit. It was in the bottom of a bank barn in Lancaster back in the sticks . When he arrived 2 guys were blowing the interior out of it, doors (PS damaged badly),were leaning agaist the wall and another couple of people yanking the rear out. The engine and trans ended up in a Chevelle local to that area. He wound up with the hood off of it which I moved many times, it was slammed on the pass side and rolled under, so hard it broke the 427 emblem on that side. I spoke with him about the car tring to find what happened to it. I just questioned him again about what he saw that night He told me the car was hurt very badly on the pass side pillar and cowl and front , slammed something that didn't move !!!! It was stripped to a shell and sold off in hours that night. The hood is still arround as a wall ornament !!!!
Jim |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
jim, post a pic of the wall ornament
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Thanks for the addy, I'll send you the papers.
I'm perplexed about the reference to a felony though! That's a big word, not to be thrown about lightly. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JIM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a little FYI in @84 that car was listed for parts in the Sell-it or Tradin times. A very good Camaro buddy went to see it the night the add hit. It was in the bottom of a bank barn in Lancaster back in the sticks . When he arrived 2 guys were blowing the interior out of it, doors (PS damaged badly),were leaning agaist the wall and another couple of people yanking the rear out. The engine and trans ended up in a Chevelle local to that area. He wound up with the hood off of it which I moved many times, it was slammed on the pass side and rolled under, so hard it broke the 427 emblem on that side. I spoke with him about the car tring to find what happened to it. I just questioned him again about what he saw that night He told me the car was hurt very badly on the pass side pillar and cowl and front , slammed something that didn't move !!!! It was stripped to a shell and sold off in hours that night. The hood is still arround as a wall ornament !!!!
Jim </div></div> At first I thought you meant the 427 emblem on the fender was broken, but after I reread it I think you mean the 427 emblem on the hood was broken? Could the body have been saved in '84? Do you know who ended up with the body that night? |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JIM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a little FYI in @84 that car was listed for parts in the Sell-it or Tradin times. A very good Camaro buddy went to see it the night the add hit. It was in the bottom of a bank barn in Lancaster back in the sticks . When he arrived 2 guys were blowing the interior out of it, doors (PS damaged badly),were leaning agaist the wall and another couple of people yanking the rear out. The engine and trans ended up in a Chevelle local to that area. He wound up with the hood off of it which I moved many times, it was slammed on the pass side and rolled under, so hard it broke the 427 emblem on that side. I spoke with him about the car tring to find what happened to it. I just questioned him again about what he saw that night He told me the car was hurt very badly on the pass side pillar and cowl and front , slammed something that didn't move !!!! It was stripped to a shell and sold off in hours that night. The hood is still arround as a wall ornament !!!!
Jim </div></div> At first I thought you meant the 427 emblem on the fender was broken, but after I reread it I think you mean the 427 emblem on the hood was broken? Could the body have been saved in '84? Do you know who ended up with the body that night? </div></div> Sooooo, Bergy has the Yenko body from the windshield posts back?? Jim's story explains the welded in cowl does it not? Trying to understand this... |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
If indeed just the firewall and cowl have been replaced - or even other parts of the body but there are remnants of the original Yenko shell still there it would be my opinion that this is still the original Yenko car. The physical transfer of cowl tag and trim tag to a new and completely different shell I believe is a rebody and therefore no longer the original car that the tags were born with.
We need to step back and employ some of the 1980's mentality and look at how this car would have been dealt with back then. Although a Yenko has always been significant, back then there most likely would not have been a priority to preserve hidden vins. It was very common to just transfer tags to new shells or cut very large parts of several shells to make one. Noone was overly concerned with originality therefore crude methods could have been used to restore a driving car. If this car was involved in a terrible accident it would explain fully why the entire or large part of the cowl & firewall were replaced. We could then only assume the original piece was determined to be scrap and used for patch panels (I remember using street signs as floor patch panels) or just discarded. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
If it took a hard hit in the cowl, there still should be evidence of the repair. The cowl,firewall and whole dash could have been replaced. I would look for body filler repairs on both rockers and roof. Also look for floor damage. A very detailed inspection and disassembly will solve the mystery.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Bergy,
I know you aren't posting in this thread anymore, however, Jim has been around the PA area for a long time and knows a lot of the local cars in the area. If he says he saw it being parted out, I would believe it. I would disassemble the car and have the body blasted to see what the repairs have been to the cowl area. Don't let anyone else tell you any "information" about the body until you find out for yourself. If the car is indeed a rebody, then you take the steps to find out who fraudently performed the rebody on the vehicle and go from there. -Matt |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: talwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If indeed just the firewall and cowl have been replaced - or even other parts of the body but there are remnants of the original Yenko shell still there it would be my opinion that this is still the original Yenko car. The physical transfer of cowl tag and trim tag to a new and completely different shell I believe is a rebody and therefore no longer the original car that the tags were born with.
We need to step back and employ some of the 1980's mentality and look at how this car would have been dealt with back then. Although a Yenko has always been significant, back then there most likely would not have been a priority to preserve hidden vins. It was very common to just transfer tags to new shells or cut very large parts of several shells to make one. Noone was overly concerned with originality therefore crude methods could have been used to restore a driving car. If this car was involved in a terrible accident it would explain fully why the entire or large part of the cowl & firewall were replaced. We could then only assume the original piece was determined to be scrap and used for patch panels (I remember using street signs as floor patch panels) or just discarded. </div></div> Now this makes sense. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I think the only thing that makes sense is for Bergy to take this thing apart and give it a good once over. Oh, and I'd be looking for some RG paint like Joe suggested!
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Bergy, ignore what you read & please post pictures of the cars progress. it does'nt matter if its a Copo or not at least its got a fantastic History, what alot of fun... p.s. your BB RS restorations my favorite. there really is no meaner color than B.B.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Sorry, but that is poor advice - one should not ignore the written because it represents some element of history. Jim in DE sharing his experience is very relevant, and might explain what Bergy finds when he pulls the car apart. Other folks' sharing their context is also helpful. Right now all we know is that the car has a yenko vin plate, no TT, another car's vin on the f/wall, a big bar and a 140 speedo.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/o...0/SCAN0454.jpg
actually more then just the original 140 speedo - the whole cluster. Plus original tank with single 3/8 fuel line and sending unit. I'm out of town for a while - car is under secure cover until ownership investigation is complete. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
bergy, thanks for posting the pic. please continue to do so,as we all would like to follow this mystery.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Right now all we know is that the car has a yenko vin plate, no TT, another car's vin on the f/wall, a big bar and a 140 speedo. </div></div>
besides the speedo and yenko plate,that's pretty much the norm. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
No one's questioning if the dash carrier or VIN number are indeed from a Yenko car, as that's already been confirmed by several. It's notion that the body is original to the car that has many people a bit skeptical, as at least one hidden VIN has been confirmed to be from a different car. I'm anxiously awaiting more pics of the body itself as I think it should be fairly easy to determine if it is indeed the original Rally Green Yenko body or one from another Camaro.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Hey Joe - Thanks for posting. Can you share who those several people are who have confimed the dash carrier? I wasn't aware that anyone mentioned the SW tach mounting provision. I'd like to speak to them. You can PM me if you wish. Thanks
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Does this car have a vinyl roof? If not now, did it ever?
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Nevermind, found the answer.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I was speaking more about the 140 speedometer than the tach holes... it was clearly seen in the ebay auction. I was simply stating that the plastic dash housing is correct and likely from the original RG Yenko Camaro...its the rest of the body that's not been confirmed as original to date. Does the body shows signs of original RG paint, replaced firewall, etc. as you suggested earlier in this thread? Still haven't seen or heard any more info on this.
Good to see you're still updating this thread with pics, I am looking forward to seeing pics of the body. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Thanks Joe - I'm working hard on the ownership and experience history of the car right now. My wifeand I split our time between our home up north and our place in FL. I'm in FL now. The car is covered and pushed in the corner of my building. As I stated before the information came to light about the Yenko being in a severe accident in Lancaster in 1984, there is lots of evidence of this car having its cowl and part of the floor/hump replaced. There is original blue under several layers of paint on the cowl (car with cowl vin was original blue). There is green under lots of undercoating and paint on the right frame extension @ rear wheel well (no blue found in rear). It does appear that the entire car was white at one time - still trying to figure that out. There will be lots of photo documentation during disassembly - right now I'm working on the history of the car. The only work that I did on the car was to replace the clutch - it was slipping so badly that I had trouble driving the car into my building and moving it around. That's when I first noticed the original BB cross member. Also, the sub frome has been straightened on the right side. The rails are so wide that I had to pry them inboard about an inch to get the cross member bolts re-inserted.
That's all I have to report for now. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is green under lots of undercoating and paint on the right frame extension @ rear wheel well (no blue found in rear). It does appear that the entire car was white at one time - still trying to figure that out. There will be lots of photo documentation during disassembly </div></div>
Sounds promising... looking forward to seeing this. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Bergy, sounds like things are starting to make sense. It must be the subframe that was in the car when it was hit hard. Did you have to pull the pass. side rail towards the pass.rocker to get the crossmember back in position?
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JIM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a little FYI in @84 that car was listed for parts in the Sell-it or Tradin times. A very good Camaro buddy went to see it the night the add hit. It was in the bottom of a bank barn in Lancaster back in the sticks . When he arrived 2 guys were blowing the interior out of it, doors (PS damaged badly),were leaning agaist the wall and another couple of people yanking the rear out. The engine and trans ended up in a Chevelle local to that area. He wound up with the hood off of it which I moved many times, it was slammed on the pass side and rolled under, so hard it broke the 427 emblem on that side. I spoke with him about the car tring to find what happened to it. I just questioned him again about what he saw that night He told me the car was hurt very badly on the pass side pillar and cowl and front , slammed something that didn't move !!!! It was stripped to a shell and sold off in hours that night. The hood is still arround as a wall ornament !!!!
Jim </div></div> Jim, I assume you recall this encounter via the vin# - but just to be sure, it wasn't vin #615844? This vin was also a rg y-camaro that was in the general Lancaster area, and appears to have been run hard. It eventually went out of state where it met it's demise, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img] Just want to make sure of the vin's - not questioning anyone's memory here! |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Just to be VERY clear: my inquiry about vin #615844 is an effort to maintain clarity between two similar cars/situations, and therefore not confuse Bergy's purchase with another car.
For the record: VIN #615844 is also a Rallye Green Yenko Camaro, also sold new in PA (Marshall Chevrolet, Reading, PA), likely also an 03B car, also a VT & PS car, but had an A/T when sold new (it later had a 4sp I believe). This car also led a hard life, and the title activity ended in PA between '80 - '86. This car ended up on the used car lot at Wenger Pontiac GMC in Quarryville, PA in '84, and was sold to a guy in Nottingham, PA with 105k miles. The title was purged from PA records in '86. The car ended up in Maryland in Dec. of '86 with 68k miles, was resold in Aug. of '87 with 161k miles. I spoke to the last owner in MD who confirms that he personally wrecked the car 2x, with the second accident completely totalling the car. He had no idea that it was a Yenko, nor that it was originally RG - until I mentioned it, then he recalled the RG paint under the sill plates. This car had some accidents, some mileage issues, etc... and I just wanted to clear the air to ensure that JIM hadn't laid eyes on this particular car. Nothing more, nothing less! |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
good detective work. How about some me some info on my "By Berger" Z/28. Having no luck at all! Anything would be a plus.
|
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Not sure how a car that was totaled in 1987 (or later) in Maryland enters into the discussion of a car hit hard in the cowl 1984 parted out in PA that same year. Thanks for the info though. I'll add it to my search list to verify that the MD car had a continouos registration history through the 1984 period - sounds like you've already verified that though. If so, you could save me the trouble with accessing microfilm if you don't mind sending DMV copies. Thanks Marlin
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.