Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
We were all 'in the dark' about the Douglas situation at one time or another, so I wouldn't discredit Vince due his opinion 'back in the day' that the cars might be Berger's. Vince verifys Yenko cars only, not COPO cars, which is why he would give a negative answer on a Douglas car. Vince is going by the paperwork, which does not support the Douglas COPO cars being Yenko cars.

I only bring Vince into this discussion because you brought Ed into it, both are noted authorities, and they disagree just like we do.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Marlin,
Ed not only knew and documented the story as well as verified and data based the Known Douglass Yenkos. He went out of his way to meet with Jack and discuss the situation in complete detail.

I have never seen a Document or letter from Vince stating that any of the Douglass Yenkos were not sold to the public as such. I would certainly like to see that.

He could verify that they are not on the Yenko inventory sheets, but we're already in agreement on this.

I wasn't trying to discredit Vince at all only point out that he couldn't be expected to verify something he wasn't aware of.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Marlin I'm asking you because of the reputation you have ,if you owned a Jack Douglass copo that was sold with Yenko stripes/badging and were going to restore the car and had original photos to document it along with a bill of sale how would you restore the car and when you sold it how would you promote the car?Trick question [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I know you'll answer honestly. Brian you can answer too.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

According to Shor, he does not want any Yenko items on his Douglass COPO. He likes the X11 with fender pinstriping. I would aggree. The Douglass car is a nice piece on its own. Why cloud the situation with some stripes. It would seem to me that unaware buyers of the 1969 Yenko striped Douglass cars were taken advantage of. It has just taken 30+ years to find out. Did Jack Douglass explain to the buyers of the Yenko striped Douglass order that the cars were not part of Yenko Sports Cars Inc? Doubt it...BKH

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Tim;
Honest question, here's my honest answer. I would not put any Yenko identification on that car if it was mine. If paperwork was located that proved that there was an agreement, I would still be hesitant to do so because the car is not on the Inventory Sheets.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Honest answer, I quit, missed some good stuff on ebay today. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Brian, Do you think people actually cared back then??!!! I'll bet that half if not more of the original buyers that bought Douglas Yenko's new in 69 had no idea who the hell Yenko even was let alone cared where the cars originated from or who striped them!!! I have talked to a person who bought a Cannonsberg Yenko/Douglas car used in 1970 and also who knows how many other people that were also around and in the muscle car/race scene of Chicago in the mid 60's to mid 70's and THEY never heard of Yenko. To the people that had bought the cars new most probably thought they were buying a factory 427 Camaro that had a cool set of stripes on it. These were just cool fast cars back then and this crap didn't matter till they escalated in value. Nobody really wants to admit that this whole disagreement stems about the value from a "real Cannonsberg" Yenko to a "Hinsdale Yenko". I know there has to be a way to seperate the two because like some posts have read if you counted all the cars that got stripe kits over the counter what would that do to the value of everyone elses "REAL" Yenko's? I know that I may be out of pocket here but this is the way im reading this.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Frank;
I think the YENKO name must have had some impact on the public, otherwise Jack would have left the cars as COPO's. Would he have paid this $400+/- (where does this $# come from anyway?) for the stripes and emblems if they didn't carry some recognition on the buying public?

I would agree with you that the general public didn't know what a Yenko was, but somebody who was willing to pay that much for a car should have had some knowledge - especially since the Hedrick car was cleaning up on the strips, and there was an aggressive ad campaign going on.

One of my buddies bought his '69 Yenko Camaro in Dec of '69 off a used car lot. The only thing that made him stop and look at the car were the stripes - except that he thought it was a Z28. Once he saw the 427 on the hood, he asked to test drive it. So, not everyone knew what was going on, it would have been especialy hard for him - he was just back from Vietnam.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

So the value of a Douglas _____________ (fill in the blank) will not be raised if it is certified a real Yenko?????????? And since when is the value of a car not relevent to a dealer?????????? And IMO its all about the money. Thats why origional 100 Stingers are bringing 15,000 to 20,000 and I sold 2 kit cars for 8,000. and that wasn't each!!!

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

As a follow up, I am not striping my Douglass Yenko, not because I am questioning it's being a Yenko. I just don't like stripes. It will still retain it's yenko badges and headrests.
This way everyone will be able to spot it at next year's reunion [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Interesting thread to say the least. I'll toss in my 2 cents based on what I've read here. It appears there should be 2 definitions, a Canonsburg Yenko and a Douglass Yenko. The Canonsburg Yenko being the VIN's from the original list that came out. I would call them both Yenko's, but when it came time to sell it I would identify it as whichever one it is. That's my opinion and it doesn't mean much.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Wanna see a picture? This is back in February 02
1969 JDY 252

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Frank,
There have been no other Double COPO Camaros or COPO Chevelles direct ordered by a Yenko Sports Car Authorized dealer and then sold to the public as Yenkos.If more are found then these too should be considered Yenkos.

The stripes were available after not before the Douglass Yenko order and primarilly I would suspect for replacement on any of the cars which were originally done that way.

For example a dented fender/door/1/4 panel which needed to be restriped or stripes which peeled off for one reason or another.

I can tell you from experience that it only took three to four winters of salt and snow to completely rust through Camaro floor pans if the car was not cleaned and maintained.

The stripes on a year round driven high mile car wouldn't have faired as well.

The Clary's can correct me if I am wrong but we have not seen the use of Yenko Stripes by any other Dealer any where at a date earlier than on the Jack Douglass Yenkos.

Brian,
To insinuate that people were taken advantage of by Jack Douglasss and It took 30 yeras to find out this fact is simply preposterous.

My opinions are with Frank, people wouldn't have given a rat's hynee about where the cars had been invoiced to. They were buying the L72 9561 COPO option and 9737 Yenko Sports car conversion option. It is only today that some (actually only a few) people can't acknowledge that this did indeed take place and that it is a special foot note in Yenko and Super Car History.

Tim,
You asked a question to which the answer was a foregone conclusion.

While I may get flamed,I have all the deepest respect for the late great Don Yenko, I can only speculate if he were around to be asked if these Yenkos were considered in his total count?

I propose, why then was there no other dealer in the Chicago Illinois market to sell Yenkos? The answer is very simple. Jack Douglass was the only authorized dealer in the territory.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Steve do you have photos of your car when delivered from Douglass with all the Yenko stuff on it ?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Frank, If you read my pior post, I said the same exact think. Most people would not or did not car if it was a Canonsburg car. Only now is it a big deal. There is the Douglass camp and the Yenko camp, that is clear. There is a new camp starting to form, It's the I am just tired of this topic camp...BKH

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano, are you telling me that if you bought a Douglass stiped Yenko new, and now just found out that it was not a Canonsburg car from the start you would be happy about it? How many people would rather own a Douglass Yenko over a Canonsburg Yenko? This might be an interesting poll. It might not mean a hill of beans then, but it is relivent now....BKH

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

This has been a fun topic so far. The responses and posts have been quite numerous. It's as if a bunch of us are sitting around on a summer night at some drive-in or diner somewhere discussing the Douglass thing ! The internet really is a great medium for this sort of thing.

Brian, your question to pick one; a Douglass Yenko, or a Cannonsburg Yenko is a little tough. There are inherent monetary values associated with each.
A Cannonsburg Yenko is just that. It comes without controversy. It is without question.
A Douglass Yenko is going to come with controversy. We have proven that over the last two days right here! There are two sides to this camp. I don't see this changing. Opinions have been made on this issue.
I think the Douglass Yenko's are really neat, they have some extra little options that really set them apart, only 5 or 6 of 25 have surfaced, and they have a great story to go along with them [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
It's not like these cars have traded hands much, but I do see a demand and interest for them. Hey, time will tell [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
You tell me...are you really getting tired of this topic?
How did you feel when the car was first trailered into your shop? I sensed a certain excitement on your part.
While you were going over my car I was drooling over your low mileage Yenko. It was a fun day for me. We were both enjoying Yenkos. One was built in Pennsylvania and spent it's whole life there, the other was built in Illinois and had spent it's whole life there.
I can't wait till next year's reunion!! Rob, sign me up! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

This isn't durrogatory but I'd love to see a red black Yenko stripe Douglass copo endura bumper car atlas wheels. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I respect all of the members of this site. Every one contributes when they post no mater the subject or content of their posts. But in this case I have STRONG feelings about this topic. The CAMP I come from is that a member in good standing of this site COULD most likely suffer as a result of this thread in relation to the sale of his YENKO Camaro and what he will get for it dollar wise and that my friends is serious business especially when that is what you do for a living. I don't know how any one could be sick of this subject. Mabye because it isn't your car. Would you be sick of it if it was? I am just venting because this is all supposed to be for the fun of the hobby and to learn about and read new ideas related the cars we love so much. This is different though. The thread does keep going and going with seems like no end or final decision but that is why this forum is so great with all of the KNOWLEDGEABLE people on hand a complex issue like this should be addressed as it will probably come up in the future. Mabye to resolve this a poll is in order. I am not siding with Stefano for any other reason than I would side with any one else on this site that I have learned from. Regaurding this issue I just think we are being a little to anal retentive and this may affect members of this site that own or plan to sell their Douglas cars.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Frank ,Thanks for the kind words your spiff check is in the mail [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

Jeff, Your reply is right on target with my thoughts.

First and foremost we have the physical evidence, the cars themselves. Several of the found examples are low miles original drive train COPOs. We also have the first party dealer principal himself and several of his key employees as well as family members Who also verify the occurrence.

A signed and notorized certificate of Douglass Yenko verification is used by Jack to Authenticate his verified COPOs.

The COPO Connection recognizes these COPOs as Yenkos and they carry a full Yenko Vehicle certificate with Douglass specific information and details.

We have the fact that Douglass was authorized by Yenko to sell the cars as Yenkos. (Eveyone look up the long definition of authorize). Since Don sold more than one Stripe kit to Douglass for the express intent of installing them on his direct order COPOs as well as the fact that he allowed Jack to advertise and Represent Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. is better than any written agreement without the physical evidence could ever be.

We have Estate Documents in Don's own hand writing stating that the situation took place as Douglass has stated while pegging the number of cars at 23. Where did Don get the number from. Has anyone ever wondered?

Yet for some it is not enough. They still ask for more.

I was not the first one to put the Yenko name ,badge and crest on these Camaros it was Jack Douglass and he purchased the items to do so and with the full knowledge of his express intent acknowledged and supported by Don Yenko himself.

To not install, at a minimum, the emblems and crest on one of these special COPOs as they were delivered to the consumer and as they were viewed in awe by their competition would be a great injustice to the Legacy of Don Yenko.

Jack didn't make the Douglass cars Yenkos, Don Did. Don's own word says that 23 of the Douglass ordered COPOs were sold as Yenkos. I have one of those 23 Yenkos.(Period)

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano, you sure you're not a lawyer?? You lay out an excellent case, Johnny Cochran look out! Time will tell what the market thinks of this issue. One of the best threads ever on the site IMO. Great discussion and good points on each side [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] .

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Johnny Cochran would say "If the vin list don't fit - you must acquit" [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I say "If Don didn't make it - you can't fake it" [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
Show me the paperwork!! The estate document doesn't even remotely lay out an agreement (ie; contract, meeting of the minds) between Don and Jack. I don't understand the significance of your statement: "Don allowed Jack to advertise and represent Yenko cars" ?? How is that arrangement any different compared to the other 115 dealers in the network? All of the dealers were advertising and represent'n Yenko cars. All of this stuff is just heresay, and one of the parties is no longer here to tell us the other side. Yenko cars are on the inventory sheets, and that's a fact - Jack [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Frank, as for a member possibly having this discussion impact the sale of his car, I think it helps it! The Douglas COPO's have never gotten this much attention from this many people before, most people have never heard about the controversy. Like other guys say, let the market decide the value, not us. Personally, I thought the car up for auction was Mecum's, I didn't know it was Stefano's until he referenced it in a prior post. Somebody will probably bid it up and buy it just to enjoy the extra mystique [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Do you have to be present to bid, if not send info on how I can register please. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Proxy Bids are accepted with prior approval from the auction along with a Bank Letter of Gaurantee. You can go to the web site and request the info you seek.
www.mecumauction.com

COPO,
Was that an insult? You certainly qualify for Politician of the month with your last post [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Marlin and JoeC,
If you ever happen to be misfortunate enough to acquire one of the 22 Douglass Sold Yenkos, please call me first as I will be more than happy to purchase the car at a substantial discount to the Cannonsberg Yenkos, No B.S.

Dana does not own the other Dover White Douglass Yenko, it belongs to Gary Liko, in Florida and was restored to the original Yenko Stripe and Badge configuration by Milt Robson,(Thanks Milt). It also maintains the distinction of having been featured as a Yenko in Several Publications
(Just stating the facts guys)and carries the very next sequential Body Number to My Car.

The black and White Contrast is stunning in person, IMO.

BTW, Why did Don Build Yenko Chevelles in Dover White?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Is there an inventory of the other 20 Douglass cars denoting colors and transmissions?? What about other options on those cars? Did they all have chambered exhaust? I do have to agree with Marlin that if the cars don't glow in the dark from being parked on the contaminated lot behind Don's dealership, they are not Yenkos. This is not to take anything away from the Douglass cars as I think they are very unique especially after what I have learned following this thread. I think this entire discussion should have a positive impact on the value of those cars!! Just my $.02 worth Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Jim,
What we have first and foremost is the Cars themselves as I have previously mentioned and this seems to be overlooked. Where did Don Yenko get the info. to quote the 22 Figure?

The only trans options were M40/Console and M21 close ratio.

All were X11 D80 Endura Bumper.

All were 9561 and 9737 w/factory tac and 140 Speedo.

At least most were to have been Chambered exhaust.

Radio equipment went from radio delete to AM/FM stereo.

All were to have the aux. lighting package.

Some, Power Steering.

Some, Rosewood Wheel

Some, Vinyl Top

Tinted Glass

None with RS.

Any period /correct Wheel Tire combo. was available for installation prior to delivery.

All standard 711 trim black interior.

2 White
1 Black for certain but probably 2
2 Red
2 Gold
2 Fathom Green
4 Daytona Yellow
2 Hugger Orange (4 total possible)
2 Lemans Blue
2 Dusk Blue
2 Silver
2 Rally Green

Jack has always stated 25 total while Don Yenko's number is 22 Jack Douglass Ordered Yenkos.

For many years I had heard but have never seen the proported extra Yenko Sheet with 20 to 25 additional Yenkos on it.

This story is Urban Legend and was routinely discussed at some of the local shows amungst the Super Car knowledgeable, but no I never seen it, nor have any confirmation that it even exists.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Thanks Stephano, How many are accounted for? Do you know of the survival of the silver ones?? What an awesome combination that would be!! Man, can you imagine showing up at a show with one of the other colors?? I almost got into it with a guy that told me that the Deuce was not real since it was a small block and was not green according to "the guy with the Handlebar mustache on TV". Great story about very unique cars and I think very desirable, however as I said IMHO still not "Yenkos". Seams like a subject that some of us will have to agree to disagree. Great topic. Look at the productive manhours lost. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Jim

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano, no insult, in fact, a compliment. Now your politician crack on the other hand........ [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
If I ever happen to own a Douglas COPO car, you will get the first call - but the price will be higher than Brian's Yenko [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Just because Don quoted 22 cars doesn't mean that he had a contract with Douglas. It could mean that he sold Douglas 22 sets of stripes, it could mean anything - the only thing it tells me is that there was no 'meeting of the minds' if there is a difference in the amount of cars that each person says was sold under this proposed agreement; 22 vs. 25. If Don references the 22 cars, why didn't he refer (in writing) to the price paid for these stripes, or the other particulars (in writing) about the proposed agreement?

I agree to disagree, I don't want to beat a dead horse. My only point is that there is too little info to conclude that there was any formal contract between Don and Jack to create authentic copies of THE Yenko Camaro.

I hope your car does well at the auction,

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano
You have more info about <font color="orange">2 Hugger Orange (4 total possible) .
</font color>

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Lets see: Walks like a duck, talks like a Duck ,looks like a duck but Runs like a Yenko, therefore must be a COPO.

Has the same father and mother, but considered a Bastared since it was not conceived on a certain , radio active piece of Pa soil.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

I wouldn't necessarily take the "22" number to heart. Also in the estate document, Don mentions something like 500 Camaros, 350 Deuces...those numbers are from memory, but all the numbers he mentioned were WAY high.

Dad, feel free to correct me on the numbers above...

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

We all have a good idea on why the 500 #.

You have an estate document written by Don's own hand which states 350 Deuces, please share.

If Don had stated 1 or 100 wouldn't make a difference to corroborate that the event actually took place and that he had knowledge of it. No one can say it was done without his knowledge. It just happens that Jack Douglass had been Quoting the "25" Number for many years prior to the estate document ever having been revealed.

A reasonable person could be confident that Don didn't just pull the "22" out of a hat and his memory at the proximity to when he wrote the document would not be the same as it was in 1987 for a casual magazine interview. He didn't even refer to notes.

I beleive that we may be are starting to mix a fresh estate document(late 1969?) with a much later magazine interview/article.

When was the 'estate" document dated by the way?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Yes, Mr. Clary we have not heard from you about this since about 75 posts ago! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

By the way have we broken a post record yet? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

So Marlin, if you were presented with a formal agreement between Douglass &amp; Yenko, would you then concede, with all the other evidence, that the Douglass cars should be considered Yenkos?

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

As I stated when I quoted the document, it was dated "September 19, 1969". Also, why the #500? Why the #350? Being as this article was being written for a magazine article, and that the other numbers are inflated, whose to say Don didn't "embelish" a little with the #22? And, I may be reading too much into it, but it almost sounds like he's bragging about it being "advantageous" for Douglass to use the stripes/emblems to "enhance retailing the merchandise." This was for a magazine article, so he had to make it sound good to the readers! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Mike;
Only if the wording of the agreement clearly states that Yenko was using Douglas as a subcontractor to modify cars on his behalf, and that Yenko had inventory sheets of these cars that Douglas was modifying. This agreement would be dated in '69 and signed by both Jack and Don, similar to the agreement with Colonial Chev. and Josh Darden. Then I would understand this arrangement to be similar to the Bill Thomas / Nickey arrangement, or the Harrell / Yenko arrangement.

A document like this would prove that there was a deal between the two, but I'm still not positive that I would consider them Yenko cars because I'm still hung up on Yenko cars having Yenko Chev. on the MSO/NICB paperwork.

You have me thinking harder though, [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] I can't just take verbal recollection at face value, if I did, and I purchased a Douglas car, I don't know that I could afford to be wrong - you know what I mean? I look at it from the perspective that I may only have one chance to buy a 427 Yenko supercar, and I don't want any doubt as to it's heritage. Other guys have a little (or a lot) more 'flexibility' in that area. I would have trouble sleeping at night wondering/doubting my purchase, if I had just spent that much money.

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Ok I'll play the Devil's advocate.

Jack Douglass Direct ordered COPOs to sell as Yenkos. Don Yenko and Yenko Sports Cars ,Inc. were not aware of the situation in 1969 and they never found out either. The parts department at Yenko Chevy was ready for a clone Rush as they thought nothing of sending Jack 22 or so stripe kits without question.

Don Yenko was wealthy beyond anyones imagination and the royalties from the sale of Jack's cars meant nothing to him or his family.

Jack was never a Dealer in the Yenko Network. Don was feeling philanthropic ,when he included Jack's name.

Don did not have much of an ego and couldn't care less how many cars Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. sold to the public. Don didn't care that someone would steal his idea and use his name in an unauthorized fashion. He would never consider a car that wasn't invoiced to Cannonsberg one of his own.
Jack was a poor desperate car dealer and needed to steal from Don in order to be succesful.

This is why there was never any legal action against Jack or his dealership. The small unimportant Chicago Metro market was alowed to flounder because Don Yenko was a poor Business man.

Jack and Don never spoke when the saw each other at the various race tracks or taverns after the races for victory celebrations ,as they had no other common interests.

Jack made up very colorfull stories about Dona Mae and they are fictitious as the two never met.

<font color="red"> Yeah right, get real guys! </font color> .

I do appreciate all the positive private e-mails which I have received over the past few days in support of the Douglass Yenkos, but,Gentlemen ,Tom has opened up the forum and given everyone a chance to present their opinions and thoughts. We would all best be served if they were presented here in the open.
Everyone should be clear on my thoughts!

Re: 1966 Yenko Stinger for sale
 

Stefano;
I fully understand your position, and your logic behind it. I just respectfully disagree, and I'm 'real' - last time I checked [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]