Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

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Before trashing a person, or, a large group of cars, by insinuation, isn't it better to address individual cars that a prospective buyer may ask about?


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Yes I agree...my comments were about a particular car mentioned. Maybe there needs to be some sort of registry for suspected cars ...and I also agree with Keith...as long as the car is represented honestly it's no big deal. Lots of people probably don't care if a car is a rebody...hell maybe some people prefer one because of the price difference that there should be if presented honestly.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

I don't condone rebodies but I still have never had two questions answered.
1) Someone finds a complete ZL-1 car with a completely destroyed body. Should that car be parted out or rebuilt using a donor body and retain some of American muscles greatest history or should the car be crushed.

2) I recently restored a 1970 SS396 Chevelle convertible. I refused to put a donor body under it and instead restored the car with all new body parts. The only original parts to this car are portions of the firewall and the rear seat divider. This boardered on stupidity and cost the customer almost $20k in parts and labor. However, the car was saved and is now a beautiful car. Had I rebodied it, I do not feel I would have been trying to pass something off as fake as the car was fully documented. I agree that a rebody is not the same car that came off the assembly line but the same can be said about this car today. However, should this complete car have been scrapped instead of saving some history?

Putting myself in the shoes of a buyer, I am more inclined to buy a car with a perfect original body as opposed to one that has had every piece of sheetmetal replaced. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Some of you recall the story of the P-51B that I helped restore several years ago. Virtually every piece of metal was replaced on that airplane save for some hardware and the government ID tag. However, the airplane was once again made airworthy and to the delight of thousands of war veterans and kids alike. Unfortunately due to a mechanical failure, the airplane crashed and killed my friend. It is once again being completely rebuilt from scratch and will be airborne soon as a tribute to the pilot, veterans and enthusiasts. This is twice that this airplane has been reborn instead of scrapped. I don't think the vast majority of people could care less when they see that airplane fly overhead. I don't have nor may any of us ever have an answer to these questions.
Rick

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

I think it's all in the way the piece is presented..Ferraris are rebodied and it seems to be a perfectly accepted deal...people will either buy them or they won't if it's disclosed...its a great discussion since these cars are getting pretty valuable...are there people on this board that would not hesitate owning a rebody ? Lets hear from you. Seems to be a grey area in this hobby and MAYBE it shouldn't be such a nasty subject.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Reading this i can't help but think of the yellow duece that is sitting in that field rotting. There really is nothing left of that car but the firewall. So does it get left in the feild to be reclaimed by mother earth?. Becouse it is now a known car to the enthusiests here anybody doing anything to it will not be able to pass it off as anything but a rebody. Sure it may not be as sought after as an original body but it will still be a duece and it will be saved. Does that make it a bad plan?. It may cost more to save it than it is worth so does that mean that the guy doing it is going to be chastised as being an idiot and dumped on by endless taunting, then he will think twice along with anybody else associated with the build as ever trying to save another rare car again. I think that reboding a car is fine as long as the car is represented as such and full history as to what happened to the car. I think for the most part the main problem is someone trying to pawn something off as being real when it's not. Well if the owner has the real shell, uses that to build another he has the right to do what he wants with it. Where would the fraud come from, by making copies?. Now that would be the problem. Personally i would like to see it saved and i would praise anybody who does it, unfortunatly seeing some of the taunts on here i know there will be a few naysayers.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Interesting discussion (Again). The L78 Chevelle I'm restoring got full quarters, fenders, passenger door, driver rocker panel and some small patches in the floor.

Everything in the drivetrain is #'s matching. Certainly, disclosure of the work performed is necessary.

Is the car a total rebody? No. It has been repaired/refurbished or in other words restored. In the end this seems like it will be an issue of personal preference, so long as the sellers are honest.

The "what if" scenarios are endless. What if the following:

1. If the car is "Ultra-Super Rare", can be documented and has it's original drivetrain intact. Body is shot, but car is all there.

2. If the car is nothing more than a rotted shell, that doesn't even have rolling gear. Only a VIN tag and Trim Tag, but can be documented

3. Someone happened to have documentation of a car that was destroyed years ago (car is known/confirmed gone) and they recreate the car based on an old title, buildsheet and dealer window sticker. At one time they owned the car, but trashed it years ago.

The possibilities are limitless. Buyers will have to decide what they will accept as the real thing. In the end I believe the market will price these various types of cars accordingly.

Rare cars will always be rare, but rebodies and 95% restorations will drive the prices up on factory original cars.

JMHO...

Blair

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

3. Someone happened to have documentation of a car that was destroyed years ago (car is known/confirmed gone) and they recreate the car based on an old title, buildsheet and dealer window sticker. At one time they owned the car, but trashed it years ago.


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In this case it would be a recreation not an original, if the car is gone it's gone!

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Field car? As in this one?

https://www.yenko.net/features/2001/field.jpg

If so, I can tell you exactly what was replaced, with pictures to prove it. It was rough, but very original, and is not a rebody or a firewall job. It's a labor of love for many, just a bunch of $ signs for others.

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Personal opinion again, but I think Rick and Bob are both right....if it's all in the open, let the individual situation be what it is. . With the values now, the time has come to let the "true" pedigree be part of what the car really is....or not! . Somewhere along the line the words "as original" became "original" where original doesn't mean "the original". . "Matching numbers" when a restamp and "restoration motor" terms cloud the facts too also it's a lot to ask that buyer beware is the order of the day when federal offences are being committed. .
On another note, Rick.....sorry to hear you were part of the P51B project and condolences friends and family of the pilot. . Love those warbirds too and have a Spitfire IV on my Christmas wish list! . Love to be able to go for a spin in one of the recently restored ME-262's too! . They just unvieled the Landcaster Bomber up here in Canada this week....not a flying example but still I think 10M. spent on the resto. . The example was pulled out of a lake in Europe, part of the fuselage replaced with one being used as a chicken coop somewhere....all above the board though and no restamping I know of? ~ Pete

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

Very good point Rick

Many of you might remember a few years ago when a posted about a certain Daytona Yellow Yenko Camaro and its' history. The car was a local car, that I both raced against and rode in. It was a legit VIN and like a lot of hi-performace cars was cut up for racing. The car was back halved, the floors cut out, full tubs installed, the trans tunnel removed, etc. I thought it would be neat to post the cars history as it was associated with quite a few local racers, including the original owner of the yellow ZL1 Corvette. I researced the car and its' current condition (which is a stock restoration) and found out the car the original body had been cut off and a donor shell welded onto the original dash and firewall. The cowl tags and VIN tag, along with the "hidden" VIn were not removed, but literally 95-98% of the car wasn't the same car that left Norwood..I mean body shell, complete drivetrain, interior, moldings, subframe, etc. had all been replaced with parts from donor cars or NOS. Now to me..that is a "rebody"..and I even used the term in a post...My God, you would have thought I called the Pope a dirty name..lol

In my mind someone saved a neat car, and while I didn't agree with what was done...I would have researched the car and left it alone as a race car when I found out from day 1 that is what it was..I didn't find it to be "morally" worng. After all it is a piece of automoticve history. However quite a few people on here chastised me for "outing" the car and accused me of being malicious. These same people and quite a few others privatley sent me emails saying "thanks for the info" or "neat car and story." I guess when the term "rebody" is used people start getting up in arms, as instead of looking at a positive (the saving of a musclecar) they look at the negative. If you aren't hiding something or aren't going to hide soemthing, should it really matter?? Why should people knowing what was done make a big difference?

The bottom line to me is there isn't a lot of difference between cars with every piece of sheetmetal replaced and a rebody. The shouldn't command top dollar and people shouldn't be worried about others knowing what was done. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to them..they are after all still driveable, fast, fun cars...Just my thoughts..

GSC

Re: Rebodied cars and do they get certified
 

No it wasent that one is was the sunflower yellow (is that the right color name?) that was on e-bay, it has been discussed here before.