Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Good points all, not throwing stones but it all just seems strange...

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Then it would seem that the person who certified the car, and the info he received from whomever to certify the car, made an error(s). ??? Should be easy to rectify. But the $$$ part won't be as easy I suppose.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Gary Dyer sold the car in 94 or 95 wasn't
showed until I think 99

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Hi All,

First of all, I owned the car back in the early 90's

This is how it happened.

We bought the car from Price & Moore. It was one of the 37 on the Yenko list.

We talked to Vince Emme who told us it was on the list, but it might be a 396. I asked Vince what led him to believe that. He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for.

I asked him, does it say anywhere in the paperwork that it was not coverted to a 427? Answer was no.

My contention is that, as they do today, dealers sell distressed cars at discounts. The 427 Nova was impossible to insure, so Yenko probably sold them at 396 prices to move them out the door. It was also the end of the model year and the duece Novas were on their way.

But since Vince was set against this car being a 427 at the time, we sold it for about what we paid for it. We never touted the car as being a true 427 car, only as being a 69 Yenko Nova that is on the SYC list.

My questions

Why is it on the SYC list if it's not converted?

Why would Yenko assume the warranty liability on a standard 396 Nova?

Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?

Did Yenko sell any factory 427 Camaros or 427 Chevelles in 1969 at a discount? Does that make them unconverted?


Just my opinions.

William Dyer

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

"Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?"

I think Dorsey is saying it did sell thru Yenko Chevrolet as a 396 Nova.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

"Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?"
Info from the orig owner family early in this thread states paperwork showing it DID sell thru Yenko Chevy, not Yenko Sportscars...
The best question of the bunch above IMO is why is it on the SYC list ?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

The discount appears on several, if not all, of the '69 Yenko Nova paperwork files from Warren. We initially felt that it represented a credit for the original L78 powerplant, but could never be sure because the original paperwork never mentions the 427 swap. There does not appear to be a reason for the discount on these cars other than to sell them. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

We know of another original owner of a '69 Yenko Nova, we are trying to track him down to see how his car was optioned - or was it a 396 car as well. Apparently it was stolen in '73'ish while he was at a football game.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Ok, so you guys are saying that Yenko Chevrolet received a 396 Nova, transferred it to Yenko Sports Car Conversions, then transferred it back to Yenko Chevrolet to sell?

If it wasn't touched, it wouldn't have been transferred or put on the list.

The reason it was put on the list was that it was converted.

Maybe Don Yenko made deals on those last cars so that the locals didn't get dinged on the insurance. Left off the stripes and badges so no one around there would know it was a 427.

As I said before, there is nothing in Yenko's paperwork from SYC that says the 7 Novas were NOT converted. If so, they wouldn't be on the list.

William Dyer

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Hi, Bill I tolded you it was interesting.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

"He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for".

Is it possible today to find these other 6 Novas and determine if they too were all sold new with 396 engines?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

There was nothing on the paper work from Yenko that said it WAS either.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
"He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for".

Is it possible today to find these other 6 Novas and determine if they too were all 396 engines?

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't know which ones are 'the last 7' https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Perry, we have 22 of the 37 numbers, so that is what we published and that is why this car is on the 'list'. Just because it's a non-converted car does not mean that it's not an sYc car - there were several '68 Yenko Camaro's that were not converted either. There are several '68 Gibb Novas that were 'tuned' by Harrell but not converted, they are still Harrell cars.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Info from the orig owner family early in this thread states paperwork showing it DID sell thru Yenko Chevy, not Yenko Sportscars...

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not necessarily indicative of anything...I believe a vast majority of the Yenko cars all show Yenko Chevrolet not YSC, Inc, on their paperwork, when we know they did in fact come through YSC, Inc...in fact [BKH or Marlin correct me if I'm wrong or fill in the blanks] but I seem to recall a '67 Harrell converted Yenko Camaro that was a Span car that has heavy paperwork but doesn't show YSC, Inc on the paper...and neither did the heavily modded @ YSC '69 Yenko Camaro that we know of. Donna Mae has mentioned "sloppy paperwork" on occasion, which goes along with what we found in our original paperwork from the estate...

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

The reason they are on the sYc list in the first place is that "special things" were done to them that made them come off the factory warranty list.

They had to transfer them to SYC in order to take Yenko Chevrolet off the hook in case someone went to the district manager saying "hey I bought this 69 Nova from Yenko Chevrolet and when it pitched a rod after 1 month, I took it to Joe Blow Chevrolet in Pittsburgh and it has a 427 engine in it. I want another 427 engine put in it."

Yenko Chevrolet would be breaking federal law and their GM agreement by swapping out engines.

So they made Yenko Sportcar Conversions to swap engines that they couldn't do at Yenko Chevrolet.

When the 69 COPOs came around, Yenko kept up the notion that they converted them to keep the COPO ordering a secret (though it came out anyways).

William Dyer

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Well it seems our car was on that list but it did have an engine replaced under warranty.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so you guys are saying that Yenko Chevrolet received a 396 Nova, transferred it to Yenko Sports Car Conversions, then transferred it back to Yenko Chevrolet to sell?

If it wasn't touched, it wouldn't have been transferred or put on the list.

The reason it was put on the list was that it was converted.

Maybe Don Yenko made deals on those last cars so that the locals didn't get dinged on the insurance. Left off the stripes and badges so no one around there would know it was a 427.

William Dyer

[/ QUOTE ]


William...The thinking is the cars on the list are Yenkos but what we have just learned from the orig owner is the red car(that is on the list)was bought new off Yenkos lot using Yenko Chevrolet paperwork(as supplied by Warren D)as a plain 396 Nova with no mods done. The orig owner is saying very clearly that it was not sold as a Yenko.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

To follow up on Charlies point: the next logical question is if this particular car was a 'plain 396 Nova with no mods done' then why did it even make it onto the list of 37?

The prevailing thought is that Yenko bought these L78 Novas in batches and had them stashed in the upper lot awaiting conversion through sYc. However, if someone wanted one of them without being modified or converted, it would be sold as such even though it was originally intended to be used in the SuperCar program.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Charlie put it much better than I... knowing what we know now, why would it be on the list when it was not sold as anything but a 396 Nova ?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie put it much better than I... knowing what we know now, why would it be on the list when it was not sold as anything but a 396 Nova ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my posts above! It appears you are particularly anxious to have this car removed from the 'list', while most of us are still digesting what is evolving here. What gives?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I am not anxious to have anything done, just wondering why like others. I'll stay out of it Marlin..

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

It still makes you wonder how many of the 67, 68 Camaros and 69 Novas never received a conversion. It almost seems like the lists are cars that were selected for conversion but obviously not all of them received it. The lists should probably be notated showing which cars are known to be conversions and which cars are known to be non converted.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I think the current owner could give a [censored] about any lists...who was this Locater https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif or the guy that "finds" these cars that knew this info 4 years ago just let the charade go on ? We wouldn't even be talking about this if that person would have been honest.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

How right you are Gags! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the current owner could give a [censored] about any lists...who was this Locater https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif or the guy that "finds" these cars that knew this info 4 years ago just let the charade go on ? We wouldn't even be talking about this if that person would have been honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Said. Who was the mystery person? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
Rich

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Has anyone asked Warren who he sold the paperwork to ?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well Said. Who was the mystery person?
Rich


[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows...lots of folks back then were locating stuff...and hell...it would still be a shiity thing but now that this stuff is so expensive...it has become critical that this kind of info is shared.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am not anxious to have anything done, just wondering why like others. I'll stay out of it Marlin..

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to 'stay out of it', I was just curious why you have such a specific interest in 'the list' and wanted it changed.

JeffH: As of right now, altering the list of vins is the last thing on our minds. The car's heritage is front & center, and documenting the chain of events takes priority.

In all honesty, I'm not sure the list will get changed. This car made it onto the list of 37 because of something, it was not put there by us - but by Yenko. So, we are trying to figure out what the process was in '69 to get certain cars included in this group vs. others. We have known all along that some cars were not converted, but how would we know which ones? We don't even have all 37 numbers, so if the 'later' ones were non-converted how would we know which ones were the 'later' ones. We are not about to guess which ones. This is consistent with other years/models that have unconverted situations. We don't guess, (and * ), which '68 Yenko Camaro's are non-converted, nor which '68 Gibb/Harrell Novas were non-converted. We simply offered the list of numbers as we had them, and please note: the listing of '69 Yenko Novas does not say that they are all 427's, it only says that they are Yenko Novas. There was actually a method to the madness during the years of assembling all that info!

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate. Obviously we don't know which cars are converted and which ones aren't. But as people uncover the history on a specific car(Camaro or Nova) that vehicle should be positively identified for what it is, either a 396 non conversion or 427 conversion. Even if just 1 car is positively identified on the list it makes the list more accurate. Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate. Obviously we don't know which cars are converted and which ones aren't. But as people uncover the history on a specific car(Camaro or Nova) that vehicle should be positively identified for what it is, either a 396 non conversion or 427 conversion. Even if just 1 car is positively identified on the list it makes the list more accurate. Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's obvious from your statements that you have not spent much time working on a project like this. There are times when it is better to leave published information in a general form. I could add the options, build dates and body numbers to several of the vin's too - that would make the list more accurate/specific as well. However, experience can be a very good teacher, and sometimes too much info can create havoc.

You are more than welcome to make an effort, perhaps you would like to be the one to place an asterick on the '69 Yenko Camaro's that you suspect are rebodied - that would make the list more 'accurate'! Go ahead, see where that gets ya https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate. Obviously we don't know which cars are converted and which ones aren't. But as people uncover the history on a specific car(Camaro or Nova) that vehicle should be positively identified for what it is, either a 396 non conversion or 427 conversion. Even if just 1 car is positively identified on the list it makes the list more accurate. Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

SYC can not be criticized on the accuracy of the list if people have updated information and do not make it public.

This is a situation where sYc is damned if the do and damned if they don't.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to start somewhere don't you? When info is discovered I'm sure the list will be updated.....Heck,if the numbers were not listed here many of you would have never seen them.....This is not a easy thing to compile.With all the time and energy spent in the first place it's often a wonder why people are still unhappy with the info that is spoon fed to them.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif

Steve

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Yenko Sportcar Conversions didn't order any cars from Chevrolet. Yenko Chevrolet bought the cars and then transferred them over to SYC for conversion.

The car had a file with SYC meaning it had work done. Being on the list meant that Yenko took responsibility of the warranty on the car, not GM.

From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

So why would Yenko take responsibility of this car's warranty when it is a plain jane '69 L78 Nova?

If the car wasn't converted, they would have simply moved the car back over to the regular dealer lot and the car wouldn't have been put on the SYC list.

The cars were put on the SYC list when they were delivered to the customer or transferred to the purchasing dealer showing the selling price, vin, color, trans, and extra notations.

The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing.

Why would an employee of his buy a 396 L78 Nova to race when they had 427 Camaros and 427 Novas which were a lot faster?

Yenko was in business to sell cars and make money, he wasn't doing this hoping one day these cars would be that valuable.

As I've heard from many a dealer:

"What's it gonna take to sell you this car today?"

My father built and raced the funny cars for Mr. Norm's Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago (1964-1975). It was common for them to make "special cars" for a customers and make them look stock for street and drag racing.

My father was also a good friend of Dick Harrell and was on the starting line in his own funny car when Dick blew the front tire, hit a post and was killed in Toronto.

Again, just my opinions

William Dyer

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

"Well it seems our car was on that list but it did have an engine replaced under warranty."...from the orig owner family.

From William ...."The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."
William...The orig owner is telling you it was a 396 and it even got replaced under warranty yet you seem to think he is trying to hide it being a 427 for some reason. The owner has been saying this for at least 4 years but you think he is making it up ? Don't you think maybe they transfered them on paper to SYC but since sales were very slow maybe they just got sold off the Yenko Chevrolet lot ? As 396's ? Bone stock ? Maybe it was still on the SYC paperwork list when sold but the guy writing up the sales contract had Yenko Chevrolet paperwork to work with so that is what he used. Both businesses were apparently in the same place and the file from Warren shows it was done on Yenko Chevrolet paperwork.

Jeff H ...."I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate"

Read the list...The main thing we list are the vins. We make no claims to them being 427 cars as some would like you to think we are doing. Are you trying to say our vin list is not accurate ?
We have not listed them as 427's because we don't know. Ed C screwed up and certified it as a 427. It is apparent from the orig owner it was not so now Ed is probably not sleeping well because someone is out alot of money and they probably relied on his certificate. I'm guessing in court he would be asked to show what made him think it was a 427 enough for him to certify it.
One of the previous owners or one of his affiliates knew it was not a 427 4 years ago and kept quiet probably so they could unload the car at a 427 price instead of a 396 price. I suspect this will all get sorted out by attorneys. In theory the orig owner could be making all this up but I doubt it and I would still like to see one document proving the car was indeed made a 427.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I got a question. The gibb cars had 90 day warranty when normal cars had a 5yr/50,000 mile warranty. Does anybody know what the 67,68 Yenko camaros & 69 yenko nova's have??

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I got a question. The gibb cars had 90 day warranty when normal cars had a 5yr/50,000 mile warranty. Does anybody know what the 67,68 Yenko camaros & 69 yenko nova's have??

[/ QUOTE ]

The only info I have regarding the warranty on the '69 Y-Novas is on K.Suydam's car, and it describes the car as a 427 with a 90 day warranty. As of right now, it's the only car that I'm aware of with something in writing from Yenko that says the car has a 427. It is important to note that the car was not sold from Yenko, but rather from Stauffer Chev. in Scranton. The non-converted Novas so far appear to be sold from Yenko.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

This makes sense to put the cars in a Corp. Away from Yenko for liab. & warranty problems.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Our COPO Chevelles got the 5-50 warranty like any other Chevy. I assume the L88 Vettes and ZL1 Camaros got the same treatment. GM probably gave the 90 day warranty on any new engine that was installed. Just guessing. I don't think that Ford or Chrysler gave much of a warranty on their top of the line muscle cars. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

just from a joe blow that knows next to nothing on these cars.

wasn't the orginal owner an employee/friend of yenko, could that be the reason for the lower selling price.

or maybe the car was on the list due to some other mod, maybe gears,or shifter,tuning ???

are there anyone who worked for yenko that might shed light on the selling process.

another thought, the 427 cars were faster, and this car was raced when new, how fast was it 396 fast 0r 427 fast.

either way it's a buetiful car

just my $.02 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Again Marlin I have no specific interest in "the list"
I was under the assumption the list was just for special cars..i.e. SYC 427 Nova's in the case or maybe special 396 that had be modified. With the info from the orig owner family saying for sure it was just a 396 on the lot with nothing done why would it make a list ? I'm not saying you or yenko.net put it there just that it seems it should'nt be there unless every 396 Nova yenko sold is on this list.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
plain jane '69 L78 Nova?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take one please! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif Could'nt resist!

Rich