The Supercar Registry - Whereabouts of Grumpy Jenkin's Camaro Toy IV

The Supercar Registry (https://www.yenko.net/forum/index.php)

- Supercar/Musclecar Discussion (https://www.yenko.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=79)

- - Whereabouts of Grumpy Jenkin's Camaro Toy IV (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177486)

Are any of Jenkin's crew guys still around, they might remember if the car was an RS when purchased. Given the fact it had a lot of RS content I think it's plausible to think it was an RS rather than not. And the story about the color, Doug Boyce said Grumpy was urged by some photographer to try a different color than white because it was easier to photograph. But then Bill just painted the car white. Since he painted which is known, he might have tinkered with some aspect of the cars. I don't see him adding the rear marker lights but that's just me.

This is the only mention of Bill Hayes I have found:
https://www.billrolikenterprises.com/vintage.php

All of these cool vintage photos were taken by myself between 1966 and 1976, prior to the bulk of my own racing activities. Most were taken at Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ, Old Bridge Twp. Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ, or Indianapolis Raceway Park, Clermont, IN. You will also see a group of unique photos I took during a split, two week stay at Don Carlton's shop in Lenoir, NC, during late 1976 and early 1977. I was assisting local race car welding guru Bill Hayes with fabrication on the Body-In-White Aspen Pro Stock car for NJ Super Stock racer Ed Lukas ("Over The Hill Gang" SS/AA). Don and head wrench Clyde Hodges were working on their other projects, including "stretching" the "Gold" Dodge Colt in preparation for the upcoming 1977 Winternationals, so Lukas wanted to speed up the process and sent us there. A fantastic experience! Sadly, the Aspen was the last car to come out of the Carlton shop, as he passed away as a result of injuries from a testing accident only a few months later.

I snapped these of IV at the inaugural Pro Stock at Pomona 1970.

Please excuse the image quality, the prints were stuck together for 50 years and separating them was challenging. - Bill W

Shawn Severin gave me these

Amazing how nice Jenkins team made the rear wheel wells/lips to fit that monster rubber.

Looped in another buddy to help with research. Today a decent baby step was made. Getting a little closer.

I made this to show that Toy IV had a 1968 tag.

Some people said it had a 1967 tag but you can see it has the 1968 Fed Safety statement

67 and 68 had the rivets lower on the tag

1969 tags had the rivets in the center

Was looking at some old conversations.
Dan Palchanes 2009

All the info and pictures I have,plus many conversations with Heavy and actually meeting him 2 years ago told me he had Grumpy's 68 RS/SS 396 to 427 4 speed Camaro.I know ownership History on the car too.Thats why I was real surprise what you first said,really confused me and what you were trying to say. Grumpy told me his car was not White originally from the factory.He told the original factory color and mentioned it was a original L89 396/375 RS/SS. I have the name of the guy whos doing the recreation of the original 68 Grumpy RS/SS Car. Dan

Also Dan Palchanes says that the guy that bought it from Heavy was Frank C

Thanks Carleen!!

Per Carmen Rotonda and Joe Algieri there was a guy in between, sounds like this Frank C. Do you have a full last name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John (Post 1639532)

Here is my working notes and timeline.

TIMELINE:
So the timeline I'm tracking the most, though I'm happy to modify it if facts and/or people who were actually involved share info.

-Bill Jenkins purchases IV, a butternut yellow L89 in 1967/1968. He races IV until the middle to end of 1970, and then sells it to Brooklyn Heavy (Rufus Boyd). At that point in time the car has a 3 pt bar.

-Heavy campaigns the car and Carmen Rotonda drives it at least some of the time. Car is then sold in 1973 to Carmen and/or Frank Carnisacola, there is some sort of relationship there. Some say Rotonda's speed shop becam F&Js.

-Car is sold to Bob Veniero in 1974.

-Bob sells the car to Joe Algieri. It's said that Joe has the chassis work done by SRD (but I've also heard Bill Hayes of AutoWeld). Car gets backhalfed and tubbed and there are pics of the car running 15x32s out back. I've also heard the car around this time recieved a Dana 60. Joe said he swapped the nose off the car and changed it to standard grille. He's said on occasion he sold the nose and one person said he was told he kept it. At this point the car has fiberglass fenders.It's said that Heavy looked at the car and said it was IV. Since Heavy may have been incarcerated from 1973 (unless he was out on bail) I wonder when he would have seen the car. He was officially sentenced in 1976 so we can assume he started his sentence then. So the story about Heavy verifying the car feels like hearsay for me at this point. (feel free to show me otherwise).

-Joe sells the car as a roller in 1980 to someone in Kentucky. Joe delivers the car and it's an 18 hour drive. The buy 's location had a lot of escavating equipment.

-The trail goes cold at this point.

-The car is rumored to have been painted black sometime after 1980. Was reportedly owned by a guy called Wild Bill who ran it in a "Super Shifters" club. Car was named the most dangerous car in the class because of how hacked up it was.

-At some point after 1980 but before his passing Bill supposedly looked at the car in person and verified it was IV. This is supposed to have happened in the Southeast. Bill said the car was too hacked up to restore. There is another version of this story that the car was getting pro streeted and he saw it in NJ. That latter theory seems like hearsay to me at this point.

-I'm told from a credible contact the car still exists as is. I have followed up with the contact info I have. We'll see what happens. In one of my calls today one of the people, also extremely credible says he has the VIN number of the car.

I'm just in it for fun of it, feel free to help or if you have additional info and want to keep it private shoot me a message. A few folks have graciously shared info with me.

No I dont have the full name but you named Frank Carnisacola earlier

I did, and Carmen said it was not the guy. I'll ask Carmen again at some point but I peppered him up pretty good with questions so I don't want him to think I'm a pest (but I kind of am lol).

Of the guys I think it would be interesting to track down from history, Frank would be one, and Bill Hayes (Auto Weld) would be another. Can't find any info on either of them.

I get no hits on Frank Carnisacola anywhere. I'm open minded that this might not be an accurate spelling of the last name. I only say that because I have a degree in linguistics and it suprises me to have zero hits on just the last name.