Olds W30
 

A friend of mine sent me some pictures of a 71 w30 ragtop that was just pulled from the barn of the original owner. Needs complete resto but everything is there, numbers match and resonably solid. I'm being told there were only 32 W30 ragtops made that year, any ideas as to the value of this car when it's done? Here's a pic of the shipper: http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...RagShipOrd.jpg

Re: Olds W30
 

Check with Colin. He has one currently (M22 too) and shld be able to give you a market sense. What is the color?

Nice car! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif


BTW, if you talk to Colin, tell him I'll give him $42K for his white one - $43K if he throws in the cute mutt I always see cruisin around town in it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Olds W30
 

I have two of these cars and have a database on 75 of the 110 W30 convertibles built for 1971. There were 32 4 speed and 78 automatics. There is some info on your shipping order that does not look right.

Paul

Re: Olds W30
 

Color is printed at the bottom of the shipping order (Viking Blue/White). Be careful of resto costs, and think it through in this economy. Resto costs today can top $100K for a top notch resto, done properly, and the prices on fully restored cars keep coming down.

A perfect (ex-Thornton) 70 W-30 ragtop 4-speed just went through BJ at around $170K, and it was considered one of the best in the country, it was resale red with white stripes, and the 70 W-30 4-speed ragtop is the Holy Grail of Oldsmobiles. I would have expected $250K for this car back in 2007.

A clone 71 4-speed W-30 ragtop (Black/White stripes, and very nice) also went through Barrett-Jackson (Florida). The owner had turned down $150K in 2006, then it was listed on E-Bay a few months ago, stalled at $105K, and it just sold at BJ for $84K, so the prices have tumbled.

Paul, just curious, what doesn't appear correct on the shipping order?

Re: Olds W30
 

Sam, wait until Cana sees your post. She's been called a lot of things, but mutt? Dude, that's harsh https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Seriously, however, Stealth- this is secondhand info but I was interested in the Thornton W30 stick car at B-J and was told the paperwork was "iffy" I didn't get much detail, nor did I personally inspect it, but as we know docs are crucial with these cars. If the car was legit, it was a steal. I have inspected a few Thornton restored cars, they are very nice but imho the ones I have seen at auction have been not 100% OE level. Very few people get these things dead on with all original parts, etc. They are time consuming and costly to do right. $100k is low for a proper resto. Trust me, I know https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re the clone car- IMHO, absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the prices of real cars. Clones and tributes have been falling like a lead balloon while real cars are certainly down but hardly crashing like the clones.

Regardless of price/value/cost, any 70/71 W 30 ragtop is a damn cool car! I've owned one of my two since 1988. Paid a world record $2500 for it https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Just my random thoughts. Sam, grow eyes in the back of your head and be on the lookout for a 5'8" blonde coming at you https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Colin

Re: Olds W30
 

Colin, definately ain't gonna argue with you on this topic, I'm a bystander, you da man. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif Just a few points though...

Recently sold at RM (I know you know this car, he was trying to sell it for a few years) was a 70 W-30 ragtop 4-speed, Twilight Blue, needed chassis detailing, and it didn't have the all-important "W-30" on the broadcast sheet, yet it still pulled $175K. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

So that being said, I would think that the ex-Thorton car at B-J, being a true W-30 4-speed ragtop, shown in stunning race-me red with white stripes, with solid documentation, original window sticker, original photos from 1970, and a top notch, no expense spared restoration, would have fetched more than $175K? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Olds W30
 

Stealth, I asked Paul the same question regarding the shipper through PM and have heard nothing at this point. I even followed up and sent him a picture of the build sheet. Thanks for all of the help guys. We're just trying to get a handle on initial cost vs finished cost and where we'll be when the dust settles. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Olds W30
 

Juliosz-- I sent you a PM

I agree with what Colin has said about Thorton cars. he does great work but there are details that are missing, could be stuff that is left to the customer. As far as the cars just sold at BJ, I think the red one came from www.mission442.com. Check the before photos. The black one is a fake and I have correspondence from the fellow who cloned it 8 years ago. Its a real 442 4 peed car, thats all.

Stealthbird, the ragtop you refer to was sold at Russo in January not RM

Paul

Re: Olds W30
 

Am I missing something...the vin# on the shipper is either missing or is in 4 pt. type and printed accross the line below the space allowed. What's the deal with that?

Re: Olds W30
 

Paul, sorry, I thought it was RM that the Twilight car was sold at. My fault. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

I'm familiar with the black car. There's actually more to that story that's occurred in the past few years.

So is there any suspicion about the red/white W-30 being legit? With the original window sticker, build sheet, original 1970 photos? I know these cars are nearly impossible to document, but it seems strange to me (or W-30 prices have tumbled dramatically in the past 6 months) that a fake W-30 (Twilight Blue) would sell for the same as a real W-30 (Red/White). Even if the Red/White one has the slightest shadow of doubt as to its pedigree, it appeared to be a higher quality restoration than the blue car, and the blue car was an obvious fraud.

I find it amazing that these Olds guys can pay $175K for a car, and there's still a shadow of doubt as to the cars authenticity! You know, for $175K, I think I'd buy a 69/70 RAIV Judge ragtop or Trans Am, with rock solid PHS documentation. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

BTW, this Thorton restored W-30 hardtop just appeared on E-Bay. The W-30's sure are beautiful cars! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oldsmobil...sspagenameZWDVW

Re: Olds W30
 

This particular Matador red W-30 went through the spring Mecum auction last year and stalled at 150K. It was also was up on E-bay and stalled. At both prior sale attempts the car had NO DOCUMENTATION whatsoever. So the current level of documentation with a partial build sheet and a re-printed window sticker is a bit suspect. This is not a Troy Thornton restoration …it was restored by Matt Woods from East Coast Classic Auto & Restoration another Oldsmobile exclusive restoration shop. The car looked as if it came out of the grave. One would not be surprised if a donor car were used in the restoration process. This car has a lot of questions surrounding it, which was dramatically reflected in the selling price. RM



http://mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...D=SC0508-67445

Re: Olds W30
 

Must be the week for Olds...A friend of mine just scored a 70 W-30 ragtop.. Complete minus trans (4 speed) with a W-27 rear...Orange on Black and fairly loaded from what he told me...Red innner fenders and all....The car has some mud in it and needs to be restored....$1500 bux!!! I told him to load it up and run!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Steve

Re: Olds W30
 

RM just stated the same things I heard about the docs for the B-J car. I had not seen the "before" pics prior to Paul posting the link- holy cow https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif Docs or not, even if the car is real what do you really have? But that is a whole 'nother debate.

The 442 HT on eBay is not a W30. It is a W25 (OAI hood) car. Note the side stripes.

Re. B-J WPB vs. Russo and the Az auctions, yes, I would expect prices to be higher in Az. Everybody is there, while not many people I know go to the other B-J sales as a combined result of low number of "good" cars and the travel issue. Much easier to go to Az for a week and see hundreds of good cars than to go to WPB for a week and see two. Also, Dana Mecum's upcoming sale has an incredible level of great cars and I know many are holding their pennies until then !!

Stealth, as you pointed out, W-Machines are not like Pontiacs. Much more like LS6 cars, etc. But if you can get real docs and have a real car they are great, rare, fast, unique cars. The problem is finding them!

So all we can say is that B-J sold a car some aren't sure of for about the same as Russo sold the blue car that we were all sure of https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif and some clones are selling cheap. Don't think it tells us much about the true market for good cars. Paul, would you agree? And I'd love to see pics of the $1500 orange 4 speed car, sounds awesome!

Colin

Re: Olds W30
 

I'm a big Olds 442 fan and the prices are all over the board for these cars. I'll be interested to see what the orange non 1970 W-30 on ebay goes for. No AC and Hurst automatic. I like them that way.

Re: Olds W30
 

The Blue 442 had also been at Mecum prior. It was presented with very conflicting information and no factory documents proving its W-Machine Status. It had some additional affidavits when it was sold at Russo.

The former local "Black" 442 4 speed, with W30 parts was also not an original Black car. Repro trim tags are cheap!

The Red/White 442 was at Mecum this past Spring with no Factory Documentation displayed.

Also, eBay is not what it once was. We just sold a Hemi Cuda for more than 2Xs the high bid on eBay. eBay is just a way to get exposure, at this point.

Re: Olds W30
 

Mike
Just to keep the record straight, I have no suspision about the legitimacy of the Red/White W30 just sold at the BJ Florida auction. See their photos at www.mission442.com. There is no where implied that this car was restored by Thornton,to the best of my Knowledge.
Thornton did restore a Red/White automatic car that sold at Russo in 2006,it is for sale here, http://www.worldwidemusclecars.com/

As for the twilite blue car, the owner who sold it ar Russo is a good friend and I have inspected and driven that car. Although it has no build sheet I feel strongly that it is the real deal based on the paperwork he does have and, although it is repained it has not been restored.

Getting back to the Red/White car, I have left a message with a well connect Olds guy who relayed a story about a 70 442 ragtop that he and another fellow bought about 4 years ago and in retreiving that car the frame split in two dragging it onto the rollback. The photo at mission 442 looks like it could have been the same car.

On the subjet of Muscle car prices, Oldsmobiles seem to be doing well in todays market, they never jump as high as The LS and Hemi cars and dont fall as hard when th market softens.
I know of several private sales where documented W30 ragtops have sold $225,000 to $250,000.

Paul

Re: Olds W30
 

So, if I understand what you saying, Colin, you need more than $1K https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif ? I'll be happy to take your counter offer off line. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Olds W30
 

Quote"Getting back to the Red/White car, I have left a message with a well connect Olds guy who relayed a story about a 70 442 ragtop that he and another fellow bought about 4 years ago and in retreiving that car the frame split in two dragging it onto the rollback. The photo at mission 442 looks like it could have been the same car."

Got a call back,same car. It is a real deal, beautiful resoration,extensive parts replacement,rear end could not be salvaged it was so rusty,frame damage as well.


Paul

Ebay Olds 442
 

I have looked at the photos of this car and it appears to be a beautiful restoration.
What concerns me when a car is presented by one of the countrys top restoration shops, are the number of variances from stock when one is lead to believe the car is factory correct because "so and so" did it.
The shop may have a reputation for beautiful paint,panel fit and upholstery but its the details that hurt a car from being presented as top of its class.
On this car I see the following:

Chrome wheels are incorrect for the year.
Spare wheel lookks like a 14X6 from a 69 or earlier.
Spare tire doesnt match (why have a radial spare with bias ply street tires)
Toronado Oil Pan
Sway bar links in upside down
Over stickered. Rear end has a Coil spring ID tag on it.
Aftemarket rear sway bar with an Olds assembly line tag.
Wrong placement of jack tag.
Body plugs should be splatter covered in trunk.

If you are going to spend that kind of money yo restore this car,spend the extra $1000 and get a Gardner Exhaust.

I saw another 70 442 at BJ Las Vegas, heavily promoted as a Thorton Car, the complete interior was wrong.

As I said I dont know if some of these errors are the customer or the restoration shop. I guess the guy paying the bills has the choice in what they want on their car.

Paul

Re: Ebay Olds 442
 

Paul,

I think the problem with Elliott Jaffe’s Twilight Blue ragtop and this current Matador red ragtop being discussed is there are just too many questions about legitimacy. The discriminating collector will only pay heavily for a car that has a completely solid pedigree & history and clearly these cars did not.

RM

Re: Ebay Olds 442
 

I agree 100%.
When Elliott was selling his car a few years ago i was contacted by a serious buyer in North Carolina who would have paid $200,000 +, but wanted to see a legaitimate build sheet. He was happy with the way the car was presented but wanted the right paperwork to back it up.

The present discussion Red/White car just had to have too much stuff replaced to be called a restored car.

Your description of what a "discriminating" buyer addresses the real issue. There are just too few Olds to fit that catagory.

Paul

Re: Ebay Olds 442
 

where's the pics of this barn find?

Re: Ebay Olds 442
 

thread is worthless without pics
http://www.stl-speed.net/forums/styl...t/thewife2.gif http://www.stl-speed.net/forums/styl...fault/pics.gif