Tyler's Car
 

It's First

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Moving the conversation over here now?

Original discussion over at the Pace Car site-

Chicken or the egg?

Re: Tyler's Car
 

No, just making a statement of free will without having to defend, debate or anylize it to death. Look, Tylers Car even has a facebook page!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...6474994?ref=ts

Re: Tyler's Car
 

That is just cool.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Thanks for the support! I'll try to maintain the facebook page. It's great to be #1 at something!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Tyler's Car
 

As far as I'm concerned if a guy wants to make a simple statement saying he has the first 67 festival pace car replica by Vehicle Identification Number sequence he shouldn't have to be subjected to the inquisition. Thats a nice car you have but I like its big brother you just added to the IPC stable better.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

I get such a laugh out of those threads https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif Great car Tyler!!!

Re: Tyler's Car
 

I would call that thread disrespectful. Even though JohnZ always responds professionally, that same courtesy is not shown to him.
John is the biggest asset this hobby has. He is in the National Corvette Museum Hall of Fame (only the 2nd historian if I recall correctly) and gives selflessly and freely to the hobby (be it Nova, Camaro, Corvair, Corvette, Viper, Firebird, etc).

The IPC guys sure are making a name for themselves....

Re: Tyler's Car
 

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...-SAYS-TYLE.jpg

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Kurt,

Yes, John is a great asset. Whether it be on the CRG site, IPC site, etc. But, I'd appreciate that you show the respect to everyone on the IPC site by not lumping them in together. You don’t seem to remember that I was a CRG associate at one time. I was a member of both sites and it seems to me the powers that be couldn’t handle it. I usually tend to not get involved in these discussions on both sites. But, you need to realize when you throw a grenade, innocent people get hit by shrapnel. I don’t care what was first or who is out of line. Leave this on the playground where it belongs.

Mike <font color="red"> </font> <font color="black"> </font> <font color="black"> </font>

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Wow...this reminds me of the thread about the last 67 Z-28...my car is the only cowl dated 07C 67 Z..and only some 200 cars from the end of production. But apparently there is an 07B 67 Z with a later VIN....that thread (and friendly argument)went on for weeks...
I still do not understand if my car was ordered last...built last..or delivered last...
So I always state the facts.."the last cowl dated 67 Z known"

Have fun with this thread !!!

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Your car was sheduled to be built later as evidenced by the 07C code, but after the tag was stamped it was pulled forward in production for whatever reason Fisher or GM had. The Trim tags (or the computer cards that created them were done days, if not a week prior to the start of contruction of the body they were intended to go on). So if someone decided they needed a particular car a week earlier, they could just pull that tag (and by tag i mean the entire paperwork package that went with that body number and tag) out of its holder and bring it forward, or conversely delay it for a day, week, whatever. The tags were not spit out of a machine and riveted to the cowl as they came out of the machine. If your VIN is lower that the 07B VIN your car physically came down the line first, if its Higher it came down after. Pretty simple concept,every time a car came thur the wall from Fisher to GM the VIN counter advanced by 1 number the VIN was then recorded against that particular body number, assigned a sequence number (crayon marking on the firewall) and released into the Body bank for sequencing out into GMs side of the plant.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

So you are saying that the cowl tag to my car was actually made 'some time' prior to 07C ??...and my car was moved up and started built prior to 07C and 07 B for that matter?...and that the other car which had it's cowl tag made prior to my car (07B), waiting to be started until 07B ?? and therfore had a later VIN than mine?

I'm still not quite sure if this is what you are explaining.... thanks for the response.

sorry to hi-jack the thread..but I guess it is the same basic scenario with these two Indy cars.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Body number has never had any bearing on production scheduling.

124379N569358 has been correctly recognized for years as ZL-1/COPO Camaro #1 by virtue of having the lowest VIN. It does NOT have the lowest [222002] body number. Of all ZL-1s the #3 car 124379N608193 has the lowest body number by a wide margin: 211785. Next in body number order is the #14 ZL-1 222001. #1 &amp; #2 were built December 30, 1968. #3 was likely built the 1st week of March 1969. The remainder of Gibbs' ZL-1s were not built in body number order either even though they were ordered at the same time and grouped by color.

The same holds true for '69 Yenko Camaros. The lowest VIN 124379N578693 isn't even close to the lowest body number in the first group of cars Yenko ordered. In fact, of all the known cars it has one of the highest numbers in the first group.

In any group the lowest VIN is the earliest produced, period. John Z who was there has stated that, all of the evidence [Canadian Shipping Records are by VIN; CRG db] supports it.

The discussion continues because a few people believe they have something to gain by bending the truth.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

You have to go by the VIN. This is silly. Using the body number to say it was the first one built is kind of lame. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Yes, the tags were made up sometime prior to the actual contruction of the car, based on an estimate of when the parts for that car would be available. I wuldn't be surprised if all the 07C tags were not all set to go at the beginning of the 07B build week. GM was getting roughly 1100 Camaro orders a day, 80 to 85% of these came to Norwood. There are huge logistical issues with getting the individual parts for those cars to the factory on time to build each and every car. So GM determines what cars will be built and approximately when they want the car assembled, and they send the order over to Fisher who enters the info for the car (body number trim codes, etc) and they commence to gather the raw material, or finished products necessary to assemble those cars to satisfy GMs schedule. Keep in mind this happens every day for a new batch of 912 cars, so there has to be a few days (maybe a weeks)notice to allow for shipment of material. So if your cars order was all made up and ready to go for the next week, and someone started crying about not having the car (dealer, zone office, whoever), or some other order for a similar car got cancelled, they could move yours up and reshuffle the schedule a little.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

[ QUOTE ]
But, I'd appreciate that you show the respect to everyone on the IPC site by not lumping them in together. You don’t seem to remember that I was a CRG associate at one time. I was a member of both sites and it seems to me the powers that be couldn’t handle it.
Mike

[/ QUOTE ]
Mike,
Yes, it's really 3-5 IPC guys that set the tone so noone else wants to post. And anyone who disagrees, gets booted.
If it's not right, then the other members need to help change the tone &amp; culture of the site or guilt by association. People regularly tell me they won't post on the IPC site just for that reason.
Noone in CRG had any issues with you being a member of both groups, I don't recall it ever coming up - you didn't have the time to participate. In fact, Rich told you to contact us if you had the time in the future.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's really 3-5 IPC guys that set the tone so noone else wants to post. And anyone who disagrees, gets booted.
If it's not right, then the other members need to help change the tone &amp; culture of the site or guilt by association. People regularly tell me they won't post on the IPC site just for that reason.


[/ QUOTE ]

Too many sites are becoming this way nowadays and it is no wonder a lot of people keep their knowledge to themselves and not post anymore. For fear of being booted or shuned because they are guilty by association and are afraid to post their opinion even when done so diplomatically. I wish more sites would remember who makes up these sites. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Tyler's Car
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would call that thread disrespectful. Even though JohnZ always responds professionally, that same courtesy is not shown to him.
John is the biggest asset this hobby has. He is in the National Corvette Museum Hall of Fame (only the 2nd historian if I recall correctly) and gives selflessly and freely to the hobby (be it Nova, Camaro, Corvair, Corvette, Viper, Firebird, etc).

The IPC guys sure are making a name for themselves....

[/ QUOTE ]

John Z. doesn't need any validation from me or anyone else. He IS a walking talking encyclopedia. I certainly have learned much from him, and he is always available and approachable. A true legend in the car hobby. Thank you John for helping all of the true car enthusiast. You are certainly appreciated by our members on this site.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Tyler's Car
 

no offense meant, but reading this thread, is it solid logic to use 1969 build methods in regards to a 67 build? I would think not all things remain consistent over a 2 year period. That puzzles me a bit. don't really care if its the first car or not, but using info from copo cars being built 2 yrs after a car in question made me wonder how relavant that was.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Production methods didn't change, the only thing that changed was the body number became tied to the cars order number issued by the central office because of a change in the way the ordering system was handled. The factories no longer assigned body numbers in sequence, the Central Office assigned the order number, and it became the body number. How they made the cars, and what limiting factors affected scheduling at the plants remained the same. If you look at 69 body numbers you can plainly see how they jump around alot more than the 67 and 68 numbers because of the involvement of the central office, and the use of a single set of order numbers. In 67 and 68 you could have a car with the same body number built at LA (LA infact had up to 4 different cars with the same body number in 67) and Norwood (but obviously with different VINs), but in 69 you could not since the central office controlled those numbers instead of each plant.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

If you look at the Life pictures in the 59 Tarrytown plant (http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...p;social=false), the process is still the same as Norwood, 10 years later.

Re: Tyler's Car
 

Here's a functioning link:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&am...mp;social=false