Stock Restoration?
 

Trying to decide how I want to restore my 67 Chevelle SS L-35, I have some friends telling me to tone down the motor, go down to a 3.08 for the rearend because I want it to be a driver. Stating the difference in gasoline compared to the 60's and also if I put the stock 3.55 in the rearend it will run at to high of a RPM for highway driving. My gut is telling me that I want to restore it stock except for adding front disc brake option. This car is getting a complete nut and bolt rotisserie restoration, it has 97k miles and I know it was driven like that being kept stock so my question is what would you do? I welcome all opinions and guidance. Thank you for your help in advance.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

The early 396/325hp engines with stock compression and camshaft are not pump gas friendly. That being said, how you build it and what gear ratio you run really depends upon how much driving you want to do and what your tolerance is for using high octane fuel, etc. A 3.55 rear is not a true highway gear, but it is not that bad as an all around compromise. I would also consider what tranny you have...if it is an M20 then highway gears like 3.31 or 3.08 will be ok. If you have an M21, those lower gears will be a little &quot;doggy&quot; off the line. One of our L78 cars has an M21 with 3.55's and first gear lugs a little. Keep in mind rear tire size will also impact the final gear ratio...you could go with a 15&quot; tire easily on that car and keep the 3.55's...part of the fun of driving a big block Chevy is hearing the motor wind up a little [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img]

I would be inclined to consider some &quot;non-visible&quot; engine upgrades that improve the cylinder heads along with a modern hydraulic camshaft. If you are planning to drive a few hundred miles a year...then don't worry about the gas...buy the good stuff and enjoy the car as it was meant to be. If you want a pump gas/highway friendly car...take your daily driver out for a ride...if you want to have some fun...nothing else sounds or feels like a big block when you hit the go pedal.

wilma

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The early 396/325hp engines with stock compression and camshaft are not pump gas friendly. That being said, how you build it and what gear ratio you run really depends upon how much driving you want to do and what your tolerance is for using high octane fuel, etc. A 3.55 rear is not a true highway gear, but it is not that bad as an all around compromise. I would also consider what tranny you have...if it is an M20 then highway gears like 3.31 or 3.08 will be ok. If you have an M21, those lower gears will be a little &quot;doggy&quot; off the line. One of our L78 cars has an M21 with 3.55's and first gear lugs a little. Keep in mind rear tire size will also impact the final gear ratio...you could go with a 15&quot; tire easily on that car and keep the 3.55's...part of the fun of driving a big block Chevy is hearing the motor wind up a little [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img]

I would be inclined to consider some &quot;non-visible&quot; engine upgrades that improve the cylinder heads along with a modern hydraulic camshaft. If you are planning to drive a few hundred miles a year...then don't worry about the gas...buy the good stuff and enjoy the car as it was meant to be. If you want a pump gas/highway friendly car...take your daily driver out for a ride...if you want to have some fun...nothing else sounds or feels like a big block when you hit the go pedal.

wilma </div></div>

It does have the M20 and your advice is very sound. I do want to enjoy the car for what it is. This helps me a bunch. Thank you!!!

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Is your primary goal performance or driveability/road manners?

Is the drivetrain numbers matching?

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

[quote=VintageMusclecar]Is your primary goal performance or driveability/road manners?

Is the drivetrain numbers matching?[/quote

I want performance but, I also want some road manners. The best of both worlds really, somewhere right in the middle would be key. The drivetrain is numbers matching.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

3.73's would be fine with a nice 15&quot; tire maybe 27 inches tall.
I myself like headers and nice flowing exhaust system.
have Eric do the Q-jet for a little more performance
and recurve the distributor and you are in.
I run 4.56's and an M20 box in my Z/28 and drive it all over.
So, do not be afraid!
Chevies love gears and RPM's.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

I would restore it to bone stock the way it was born.
It is becoming a lost art that when people restore cars they tend to modify them to much away from stock form.
I prefer seeing cars restored the way they came out of the show room IMO

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

I have an otherwise stock 1970 396/350hp Chevelle with an aftermarket intake, headers, Comp 280 cam, and 3.73 gears. It runs fine on 93 and is fast enough to be enjoyable to drive. This car was a total dog in stock form, so I would recommend at least a cam change.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Since its a convertible, which is beautiful in a '67 Chevelle, I would restore it to bone stock appearance, but maybe a modern cam for better power and a Pertronix insert in the distributor to replace the factory points. Sounds like a great car.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tone down </span></span>a 325hp 396??? Are they serious? My 69 Chevelle convertible is a 325hp 396 and I have driven it about 5,000 miles over the past 12 years.....all on pump 93 octane premium and with bias belt tires. Same points, plugs, cap, rotor, etc that I put in it right after buying it. It runs and drives just fine.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XXXBlackLs6M22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would restore it to bone stock the way it was born.
It is becoming a lost art that when people restore cars they tend to modify them to much away from stock form.
I prefer seeing cars restored the way they came out of the show room IMO </div></div>

You, my friend, are in the tiny minority of people in the hobby today. The majority want to &quot;restore&quot; their car via a pile of catalogs and a credit card. No respect for preserving history....... They're creating a snack for themselves and they want extra whip cream and two cherries on top.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

It's easy for owners of L78, L72, or LS6 cars to remain &quot;bone stock&quot; because they run hard as they are but I wouldn't blame any 396-325 owner for wanting a little more grunt. It can be done very easily without altering stock appearances.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Pritchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tone down </span></span>a 325hp 396??? Are they serious? My 69 Chevelle convertible is a 325hp 396 and I have driven it about 5,000 miles over the past 12 years.....all on pump 93 octane premium and with bias belt tires. Same points, plugs, cap, rotor, etc that I put in it right after buying it. It runs and drives just fine. </div></div>

Have to agree with Bill on this one. Pretty sure you could run that car all day long on 91 if tuned properly. 10.25:1 compression; lift is something ridiculous like LESS than .370. I don't know who is telling you to tone it down, but have to wonder if they ever drove a car with a 325 horse 396.

Pretty sure the only diff between the 325 horse and the 350 horse is the camshaft. That cam would make a good choice and even help fight detonation just a bit. Or.... you could run a more modern cam. Chris Staub has some good bumpsticks for vintage big blocks. The engine would look and sound just like stock, but give you some more umph.

This is one of the few areas I am going to disagree with Verne. Any huge improvement you can make like this that doesn't show in any way, and does not hurt your performance, I am all for it. Having said all that, I too like totally stock restos. That is why I have kept my exhaust manifolds, smog system and stock exhaust in storage. After I am done beating on the Z for a while, I will be fine making it bone stock. I have no problem with bolt ons in the mean time.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

With a few relatively minor internal modifications, 400+ HP is easily attained with a 396, even through OEM exhaust manifolds. The OEM iron intake and Quadrajet should easily suffice as well.

With that in front of a wide ratio Muncie and a 3.55-3.73 gear you've got a very enjoyable driver that should be about as fussy as an anvil.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

The L-35 camshaft had an advertised lift of .398/.398 [pretty weak] with 322* duration on both sides. The 67 we had was never partial to pump gas...my experience with these motors was they developed a lot of cylinder pressure from the weak cam and 10.25 compression. I guess you can tune them to run on 91 or 93...never really tried to do that. I still think a modern camshaft combined with some &quot;minor internal mods&quot; as Eric mentioned, would make the car a more enjoyable driver.

Good luck with the car...I love that color [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Hi John, my 1966 Chevelle had a 396 and when I got it...it had 3.08 gears. The car came with 3.73 gears in the trunk...so I installed them.

With the 3.08's it was a pleasure to drive on the highway (like going to Pavilions) but a bit slow off the line. With the 3.73's, it wound up a bit on the way to Pavilions, but was great off the line [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img]

Here's not too long after the 3.73's were installed...and a complete rebuild and restore of the stock carb by Eric Jackson. Engine was completely stock...

Click to play

http://vid19.photobucket.com/albums/...s/Burnout1.mp4


Some of Eric's work:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../tn_after2.jpg


And a link to the thread about the carb restoration...from the best guy in the business!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...opics/185401/1

Have fun...and let me know when I can come by and check it out!

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Eric is the K I N G

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Pritchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tone down </span></span>a 325hp 396??? Are they serious? My 69 Chevelle convertible is a 325hp 396 and I have driven it about 5,000 miles over the past 12 years.....all on pump 93 octane premium and with bias belt tires. Same points, plugs, cap, rotor, etc that I put in it right after buying it. It runs and drives just fine. </div></div>

Have to agree with Bill on this one. Pretty sure you could run that car all day long on 91 if tuned properly. 10.25:1 compression; lift is something ridiculous like LESS than .370. I don't know who is telling you to tone it down, but have to wonder if they ever drove a car with a 325 horse 396.

Pretty sure the only diff between the 325 horse and the 350 horse is the camshaft. That cam would make a good choice and even help fight detonation just a bit. Or.... you could run a more modern cam. Chris Staub has some good bumpsticks for vintage big blocks. The engine would look and sound just like stock, but give you some more umph.

This is one of the few areas I am going to disagree with Verne. Any huge improvement you can make like this that doesn't show in any way, and does not hurt your performance, I am all for it. Having said all that, I too like totally stock restos. That is why I have kept my exhaust manifolds, smog system and stock exhaust in storage. After I am done beating on the Z for a while, I will be fine making it bone stock. I have no problem with bolt ons in the mean time. </div></div>

Lynn,
I see nothing wrong with improving the internals a bit to gain some more performance. The grief for me is seeing the &quot;need&quot; for disc brakes, dual master cylinders, air ride suspension, digital dashes, 5-speeds and aluminum radiators in cars that never came with them.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Lynn,
I see nothing wrong with improving the internals a bit to gain some more performance. The grief for me is seeing the &quot;need&quot; for disc brakes, dual master cylinders, air ride suspension, digital dashes, 5-speeds and aluminum radiators in cars that never came with them.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

<span style="font-weight: bold">I hope Tibor doesn't see this </span>[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Point taken.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

NOW the poor dude is really confused!

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

When someone finds a nice car, they obviously have a decision to make about what they want to do with it. Restore it, modify it a bit like most people did back in the day, or &quot;upgrade&quot; it with modern components? <span style="font-style: italic">In most cases</span>, the decision should purely be based on what result the owner really wants his car to be.
But here's when I believe another factor should be considered. If the car has survived all these years without any of those modifications and has most of its original equipment, then I think the car itself should be given some consideration in that decision. When a car has gone that long without being molested, it has a place in history and it deserves to be treated with respect and either preserved as-is or restored. In that case, I think the car itself is the most important part of the decision. That's just my way of looking at it and I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Verne you are correct [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] ...that's why there is so much respect by the SYC members for all the &quot;old guys&quot; on this site. They have stood the test time, have most of their original parts, and still perform well [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

wilma

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

A good representation for any Muscle Car to be restored correctly is the general theme you see at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals.
About 90% of the cars there have poly glas tires with correct components. I don't see no problem to modify the internals for more performance but the external of the car should represent how the car looked from the factory.
I have the most respect for these cars that are restored to original as it is a dying art for many people that choose to modify there car with day 2 components or todays upgrades as going original is to much of a challenge for some of these people.
Also when you re sell a car the cars restored to original sell the quickest and earn the highest dollar. Just my 2 cents.
The last show of the year I went to here in Canada, I counted on one hand out of 500 cars which completely restored cars were represented, just way to many modified cars that look all the same to me.

KEEP IT ORIGINAL [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Wash,rinse,repeat..
It's the never ending cycle,a modified car is sold,new owner restores it back to factory stock,then gets bored &amp; sells it.
New owner enjoys it,then gets bored &amp; want's to drive it like he stole it,so modifies it,then gets bored &amp; sells it.
New owner enjoys it,gets bored &amp; restores it back to factory stock,then gets bored &amp; sells it...
Agree,it's your car to do as you wish.Don't let anyone say different.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Agree Verne. Some mods to truly original cars also come from what is the current trend and &quot;publicly learned&quot; as &quot;necessary&quot; to make the vehicle &quot;usable&quot;. This is splitting the reasons/definitions of need, want and like.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When someone finds a nice car, they obviously have a decision to make about what they want to do with it. Restore it, modify it a bit like most people did back in the day, or &quot;upgrade&quot; it with modern components? <span style="font-style: italic">In most cases</span>, the decision should purely be based on what result the owner really wants his car to be.
But here's when I believe another factor should be considered. If the car has survived all these years without any of those modifications and has most of its original equipment, then I think the car itself should be given some consideration in that decision. When a car has gone that long without being molested, it has a place in history and it deserves to be treated with respect and either preserved as-is or restored. In that case, I think the car itself is the most important part of the decision. That's just my way of looking at it and I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img] </div></div>

Wow!!! These are exactly the kind of responses I was looking for! Thank you all for your input and I am going with my gut and my original stance to restore the car back to its original badass self. This car has been a dream car of mine for a long time and now that I own it I do believe I owe it to the car, I do plan on doing some internal mods like you guys mentioned but other than that I want to return it to the way it was back in 1967.

Big thanks to Bill Pritchard for finding this car for me!!

Bruce I have the 20-27 of November off so that would be a good week for me. I will PM you.

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

Well good luck and have fun!

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cubera2014</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When someone finds a nice car, they obviously have a decision to make about what they want to do with it. Restore it, modify it a bit like most people did back in the day, or &quot;upgrade&quot; it with modern components? <span style="font-style: italic">In most cases</span>, the decision should purely be based on what result the owner really wants his car to be.
But here's when I believe another factor should be considered. If the car has survived all these years without any of those modifications and has most of its original equipment, then I think the car itself should be given some consideration in that decision. When a car has gone that long without being molested, it has a place in history and it deserves to be treated with respect and either preserved as-is or restored. In that case, I think the car itself is the most important part of the decision. That's just my way of looking at it and I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img] </div></div>

Wow!!! These are exactly the kind of responses I was looking for! Thank you all for your input and I am going with my gut and my original stance to restore the car back to its original badass self. This car has been a dream car of mine for a long time and now that I own it I do believe I owe it to the car, I do plan on doing some internal mods like you guys mentioned but other than that I want to return it to the way it was back in 1967.

Big thanks to Bill Pritchard for finding this car for me!!

Bruce I have the 20-27 of November off so that would be a good week for me. I will PM you.

</div></div>

I believe I just heard the car exhaust a sigh of relief......... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif[/img]

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Stock Restoration?
 

I'm just glad you found what you wanted, John!