1969 Muncie Transmission Stamps
 

Hi Guys, looking for a little information on 1969 Muncie transmission stamps. I’m in the market for an Original 1969 Muncie M22. It’s for a driver quality 1969 Camaro. I’m not concerned about month date codes. I would like at least a real 1969 M22 of quality for my car. So my question is this. Was it typical at times for 1969 Chevrolet Muncie‘s to not have an A,B or C stamp to designate an m20 m21 or m22? I’ve looked at several used ones available for sale. Some have the A B or C stamps, others don’t. The ones I’ve looked into were not over the counter replacements. They all have had Camaro Chevelle etc Vin number stamps and Build date stamps. Just missing the single letter transmission stamp. Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks Rob

69 muncie
 

A is M20 , B is M21 , C is M22 .

I guess I should clarify, is it common for an Original to Not have the A B or C designation ? But just have the Vin number and plant/ build date? Thanks

Earlier 69 did not have ABC stamps came later in the model year. I think it started sometime around June

That is what the seller of an M22 with a 1969 Camaro Vin told me. I wasn’t sure if it was factual or not. Seller claims it’s an original M22 gear set inside. Not having the “C” stamp on the case I wasn’t sure what to believe. Thanks Rob

I could not find a stamp of my trans but here is the pop and it does not have the C and it is the original M22. The cars is a June built car

Will the seller open the side case so you can inspect the gears inside? If you know what to look for (gear tooth angle), you can verify it yourself.

Thank You for the extra effort !!!!!

good idea. I'm going to ask for some close up shots of the gear set. Thanks, ROB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuilt-Ori...53.m1438.l2649

This is the Muncie I was considering. Thoughts on it anyone?

Looks like an M-22 assembled August 31, 1968. One easy way to tell is the input shaft on an M-22 will not have any grooves. One groove would be M-21 and two grooves M-20. This identification method works so long as the input shaft is original to the trans, but pulling side cover is always best.

I've never seen a POP that has the letter of the trans stamped regardless of year or build date of the trans. Oct. 1968 is when the A, B & C were stamped as part of the trans assembly date with "C" meaning M-22 which is why the ebay trans is missing the letter as it was assembled Aug. 31st of 1968. .

The transmission in the link has an assembly date of 9M31

October 68 is when the codes started to get used based on what i have here.....all the P dated P9P xxx cases didnt have codes [september] I have mixed R or october dates S and T [Nov and dec ] all have codes ...

http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml#4speed
To distinguish between Muncie types, if the Muncie was built after 21-Oct-1968, the transmission code contains one of three letters at the end of the build code...

Looks nice and correct to me.

I can't Thank everybody enough for there input. You guys are the Best !!! ROB

Just so I understand better. The assembly date stamped on it being 9M31. Was this transmission assembled August 31 1969? or 1968? sorry guys I'm just a bit confused and want to understand. Thanks ROB

Trans
 

OCTOBER 21 1968 muncie started the A B C

If it were assembled anytime during calendar year 1969 it would have an A B or C suffix as stated. Always a good idea to check casting dates on the case and tail housing and make sure they precede the assembly date by weeks, not years.

Tranny was built August 31, 1968.

A minor detail, but it has the '70 up style magnetic plugs. Still doesn't prove that case started out as an M22. Anyone can tap the lower boss.

- Warren

Drain plugs are later issue from the M22 normal for 69, should say Lisle Magnetic 2 ( or 3 ), plus the synchro dog teeth have some heavy chipping especially on 4th gear, and 1st JMO

The '9' signifies the model year, which would be 1969. Since 1969 Camaros were produced late into the fall of 1969, you would need to cross-check the VIN for a rough production date. CON VIN shown on that trans is 19N513117, so if that is an early production 69 Camaro, then the trans was most likely built in August of 68 and the suffix letter would be missing. If it's a late production 69 Camaro, then it was undoubtedly built in August of 69....and should have the letter suffix at the end.

Posted that ebay listing in the CRG Orphans section on the 11th, no replies so the car probably isn't in the database.

Since I'm not up on 69 Camaro VIN's, I did a little more research. Colvin's book says that 69 Camaro production numbers began with 500000, so 513117 is pretty early production. Hence, it's a safe bet that the trans was indeed produced in August of 68 and would not have had the letter suffix.

It's important to find out exactly what kind of replacement gears, materials, etc. that this guy used in this trans. A lot of chinese junk out there. In my opinion if youre going to spend that much $2800 you might as well get one from a reputable source. I recomend you contact Craig Wright at "The Wright Connection"
[email protected]
Send me a PM and I can give you his phone number. He's working on my M20 right now! And he completely rebuilt an M22 for me back in 2007 which I've had zero issues with.

Pretty sure they are original GM gears, they all have dog wear, plus after market gear sets are a darker colour. The hubs are GM originals, no body produces that 3-4 sleeve with the thicker rib on back 3rd gear side, plus you can see wear the forks have marked them.

you guys are an incredible source for knowledge. I Thank You so Much. ROB

muncie info
 

Book by Paul Cangialosi , How to Rebuild and Modify Muncie 4 Speed contains lots of info about most anything M20,21, or 22 including stamps and identification .

Maybe it's been noted here before, but the VIN is from 1968 year production and the trans assembly date is from later 1969 year production. So, either the VIN or the assembly stamp is re-stamp correct? If so, my vote is the assembly stamp. Wish I could read the casting date on the case.

The "9" in the assembly date stamp is for model year of car. The "9" was used throughout the entire '69 Camaro year.

- Warren

You guys have already ID'd this trans fairly well, so not much more I can add.

Just for a quick reference though, my old Oct of 1968 '69Z had it's factory installed M22 without the "C" stamp. The trans was built right before they started stamping those designations.

My VIN was built shortly after the one being discussed: N515415. I'm posting a pic of the trany stamps for comparison. I'm sure others have closer built numbers to compare, but this is what I had to share.

What would have been beneficial on the Ebay trans is if it still had a 3950318 M22 metal ID tag attached to the side cover. No extra value really, mostly just a bonus part.

To me, unless I owned the matching number car, this would just be another Muncie that could be installed and used as desired. No way to prove it's a factory M22, so it really doesn't matter if it was or wasn't. If it has the M22 gears in it, then just enjoy the 1st gear whine and the bragging rights of having a M22 in your car.

Charlie

You're correct Warren - my mistake. I've never personally owned an early '69 Camaro. Question for those who have studied early cars - did the earliest cars have 68 model year trans assemblies? Or else it must have been a nightmare coordinating the change over in all of those assembly plants. Did the trans model assembly year always agree with the car model year (especially at change over time)?

This thread reminded me of a 1969 Z/28 I inspected years ago. I'm afraid I don't have a picture (pre-iPhone days) but I looked up my notes. It was a color change Cortez Silver car that was wearing mid 80's mag wheels and had been stored for a decade or more. There were two correctly dated AD rallys stacked nearby that were taken off in the 80s, it had a dated BU rearend, correct clutch fan, etc, but I couldn't find a VIN on the block (decked as I recall). Besides being an early build, it was a Van Nuys car, so obviously no X codes.

The transmission was stamped with both the correct partial VIN (9L50683x), and a production stamping of P9P13 C. The C was obviously stamped separately, as it was apart from the rest, not quite in line, and stamped notably deeper. The C stamping with a September 13 1968 assembly confused me, as it was too early for the documented October A/B/C suffix addition at the plants. But the build date on the trim tag was 10E, or 5th week of October, so I concluded that the C was added somewhere in the time between the initial assembly of the transmission, and the final assembly of the car.

Without pictures and a car to look at, I realize this is all anecdotal, but I thought I'd share my experience.

Bergy,
Just like most of the parts in the assembly plant, 69 parts were required for the 69 build. Forecasting the usage requirements and getting the stock to zero, but still having the parts to build the last cars - the scheduler didn't have an easy job, esp at model year end....