Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Hello, I have a question regarding Protect-O-Plates. Is there any chance of a mis-stamp? The engine code on my 69 SS 396 comes up to be a 307! The carburater code denotes a Holly carb. The rear end code is KK, 4:10 posi, which still resides in the car. I can list the codes on the P-O-P if anyone is interested. Thanks!

Brian
69 SS396 Chevelle project
2000 Z28 mid 11's @ 116 Mph

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Brian, I have seen some incorrectly stamped POP's. It would great to see the engine numbers and the transmission numbers from the POP on your Chevelle............Thanks, RatPack...............

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

When was the POP actually stamped? I know the owners name and address was stamped at delivery, but when and where was the metal plate stamped? If it was stamped at the dealer, were they provided the information to stamp it or did a technician have to crawl under the car to get the codes?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

The KK 4:10 rearend is a 12 bolt The only big block with a Holley and a KK rearend was an L78, at least in '69.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Ok, here goes ....
136379B388055 H
TO528DC KK0602B 6
P9D26 133 1

It was sold at Ted Ewald Chevrolet in Grosse Point Michigan. Craig Hartsig bought the car on 6/30/69.
When I bought the car the original engine and trans were long gone. It came with a 73 Muncie, no engine (previous owner had a 327 in it) and the original 12 bolt is still in the car. The tach in cluster turns yellow at about 5700 and redlines at 6000. The only unique option it has is a rear window defrost. Its a triple black bucket seat/console car. Someday I hope to get it put back togethor https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif. Thanks!

I have no idea when it was actually stamped, how would I find out?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

What is the build date on your trim tag? Should be about 06B? What does the car have for a fuel line, brakes, and radiator lenth? The late cars had a 3 letter engine code when they changed to the 402 but that doesn't help you because the "C" would be the first letter.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Brian, check the spacing on the numbers 133 1. These decode out to be a ps, pb, am radio, and ac car. Something is not right with the Holley carb stamping shown.............RatPack..............

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Here it the same POP, using a fixed-spaced font:

<FONT face="courier">
-------------------136379B388055--H
TO528DC------------KK0602B--------6
P9D26---------------133-----------1

Vehicle Identification #: 136379B388055

Carburetor Source: H
Holley

Engine #: T0528DC
Tonawanda 5/28/69 "307" w/ Powerglide

Rear axle #: KK0602B
Chevelle
4.10 Posi
6/2/69
Buffalo

Vehicle Build month: 6
June 1969

Transmission #: P9D26
4-spd Muncie 4/26/69

Options: -133---
Manual steering
Power brakes (J50)
AM radio (U63)
Disc brake (J52)
No A/C
No power windows
No power seat
</FONT f>

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

So.....engine coded 307 w/powerglide, plus a 4 speed muncie. Does that make it an 8 speed? https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif Plus the holley and 4.10 12-bolt rear. Some serious mis-stamping!

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Thank you Denis. I had looked up as much as I could with a friend at a GM parts department on the old Microfish. That is how we came up with the odd engine code.
Hmmmm, anyone know where I can get some
SS 307 emblems https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif
PS what does the "1" under the 6 indicate?

[Edited by BrianSS396 (11-25-2001 at 03:15 PM).]

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

The "1" under the "6" is a Chevrolet trademark, I think.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Denis,how does the 133 break down to all those options ?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Belair62:

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

EXCELLENT info Denis! And good job on the formatting for that table! Looks good, and easy to read! https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

On the right side the imprint under the "6" is a Chevy bowtie trade mark not a "1". Not sure of all years but I believe it is for a 1969 POP. Probably done to make forgery more difficult.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

I've got the "little bowtie" on my '70 POP for my COPO Nova as well.
Peter

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Great info! What is a good source for decoding P-O-Ps? Does the "Chevrolet by the Numbers" books give you the necessary information?

Mike

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

I use an old circa-1972 GM master parts manual. The first few pages cover decoding quite exhaustively.

The rest I'm making up as I go along https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Joe, the build date is indeed 06B. It has 3/8ths fuel line and power disks on the front. I did not get a radiator with the car.
Rat Pack, I spaced out the numbers just like on the POP but it doesnt reflect that in the actual post. Maybe if I try this way
-------------------136379B388055--H
TO528DC------------KK0602B--------6
P9D26---------------133-----------1

It does have the original AM radio. It definately DOES NOT have A/C. It has power steering but I am almost positive the guy I bought the car from added it, I dont think it had it originally. Thanks so much for your help so far, maybe I can get inspired to actually finish this thing!!!

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

The assembly manual has some POP info in it too.
The engine and trans data was written on a master broadcast sheet and then keyed in (VIN was downloaded via computer) and the POP printed out at the end of the line.
I've seen many POP errors, but most of the time with one digit, not both. I assume your original engine code was JD, the date looks fine.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

So Kurt, you are saying the POP was stamped on the assembly line and it was shipped w/the car, then the owners name, address, and delivery date was added at the dealer? Was the plate shipped loose in the glove box or attached to the warranty booklet?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Brian,
Yes,There is a chance of a factory inncorrect protecto plate. The car and equipment info. was stamped by GM not the Dealership.
The dealer would print a "tape" with the purchasers name and add this tape to the protecto plate which was glued to the warranty booklet.
The tape was a mirror image to be used along with GM's info to transfer on to a service invioce or repair order.
Incorrect protecto plates could be corrected through the Dealer's respective Zone office.

[Edited by Stefano (11-26-2001 at 07:17 PM).]

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Brian,
Protecto plates have been "cloned" stamped by non factory entities for many years. They are still made to order today.
It is not a criminal offence to add or change items on a new protecto plate.
The info provided on the protecto plate will give you a head start on documenting your car and establishing a pedigree.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

How will a cloned P-O-P give you a headstart on documenting or finding a pedigree ?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

I was refering to Brain's protecto plate. I do not know if it is original or not. The info provides, Selling Dealer,customer/ address. Just this info alone provides direction on documenting the vehicle.
1) Does the dealership still exist??
Some dealerships still have original
documents.
2) Is the original owner still alive and
in the area? What about heirs,
relatives, ect.
3) An L-78 4 speed with 4:10 and no
power steering was probably not used
as a local taxi cab. Look to see which
race tracks are in the area and still
open and seek info from them.

An original protecto plate with an incorrect engine code may provide a great head start!

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Are the re-popped P-O-P's distinguishable from originals ??? I hope so...

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

We live in a society which maintains the technology and ability to clone animals and human embryos. Do you still wonder if indistinguishable protecto plate clones are a reality?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

I would hope there is a sharp eye out there that can tell a real from a fake...otherwise there is no real value to a POP right ? There are fake build sheets,cowl tags and POP's.....fonts,spacing,codes or something.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

There is faux everything in the market place.

For instance; an LS6 Chevelle rag top, that started life asa 6 clyinder Pontiac Lemans hardtop. It has all of the paperwork; Even two Build sheets, protecto plate and yes all numbers match.

It has everything but a chain of ownership documenting the car!

If a complete car can be cloned and pass the scrutiny of National Show Judges, then certainly a protecto plate can be fauxed 100%

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Stefano...Which LS6 Rag is this so that I will know to avoid it ?

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

The POP was attached to the warranty book by the plant. They couldn't depend on all the dealers to do that. https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Kurt,
You are correct, the protecto plates were glued to the warranty booklets by GM not the dealers. This is what I was trying to state, in my ramblings. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Charley, perhaps it was the red one!

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

There was a Red LS-6 Convertible for sale at NIAB recently.I was astounded by the phonyness of this car.It had all the documents forged to look original.Someone really paid to much for it as I heard it went for 80K last year.I have a copy of the buildsheet and P-O-P.Looks like a second grader made it.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

If it has the little Chevy bowtie on it, a repopped POP is illegal use of the GM trademark unless it is done under license of GM Restoration Parts or a GM licensed dealer.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Has anyone seen a known phony POP and does it have the bowtie on it ? I bet they are perfect copies...figures...now all POP's will be suspect.

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

I am 100% positive my POP is original, its still attached to the warranty card. It does have the "tape" with the buyers info on it as well. Thanks so much to everyone for the info, now why dont ya all come over and help me put this thing back togethor https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Edited by BrianSS396 (11-27-2001 at 06:18 PM).]

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

The repro trim tags can be seen at <A HREF="http://www.trimtags.com

I" TARGET=_blank>www.trimtags.com

I</A> couldn't find a picture of a POP. I don't know how a place like this can stay in business. It seems to me that they are assisting fraud. I know this place has been in business awhile; it seems to me that they would be closed for something by now. It must be illegal. I wish everybody was honest, it would make the hobby a lot more fun. Any opinions?


Jason

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

It's amazing, on the website they don't even try to sidestep the "numbers matching issue." They basically say, this will make your car number matching. They also say they won't change the body style on the trim tag. But I don't think they would have a problem putting X-codes, or option codes for a 67. This is all that really matters for Camaros and many other GM cars. I wouldn't be surprized if there are a couple 67' Z convertibles floating around thanks to this place. I have heard from many people that these GM documents don't exist. I sure hope they do. It will expose a lot of cars that have been misrepresented. I hope none of you guys have ended up with these cars, or god forbid, built them!


Jason

[Edited by SuperNovaSS (11-29-2001 at 03:11 PM).]

Re: Chevelle P-O-P questions
 

Anyone have any thoughts on what would happen to the Chevrolet collector car market should those records ever be found or made available ?