Wheels . . . . ?
 

I am looking for an opinion about wheels. I am looking to put driving tires on my 1970 Camaro. The fight has come down to the following.

In the right corner the Keystone Klassic -- In the left corner the Cragar S/S Series 61.

What would look better with redline tires?
-Dan

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Just my opinion, but I can't see redlines on a '70. I'd put Cragar SS wheels and blackwalls if it were my car [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Personally I like the Keystone's better, put them on my modified 69 RS/SS I did up a few years ago. However, that was with white lettered tires. With the redlines the Cragars might look better. That's my $.02 for you to consider [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Keystones-with a sport white/wall

Cragars --with red stripe or blackwall

[ IMO ]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Cragars all the way!

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Well, if that's the 2 to choose from for wheels, I'd pick the Keystone's (a lot less common). Maybe do a day 2 look w/ some Indy Profile tires on wide wheels in the rear? IMHO, I like the combo on the attached pic....similar to this months feature car. I'd also have to agree w/ Zedder, I don't think the redlines would look right. Post some pics when you add the new stuff.

My $.02
-Mark

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] Torque Thrust "D"s all the way! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] Cragars are over used a little bit, not as much lately but still TT "D"s are seen less. key stones, I'm not sure I've ever seen them on a car around here. But then again I'm still a young'n [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] Do what makes you happy, its YOUR car!

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Cragars used more than TT??? Have you been to any shows in the last 5 years? TT are used 50 to 1 over Cragars.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I have to agree with Whitetop on this one. I seldom see Cragars any more. I think we all like the wheels that were popular during our youth. In the mid '70's, Cragars and blackwalls were the thing to have and next to factory wheels they are my all-time favorite [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] Not many cars had TT wheels at that time, so I really can't relate to them all that much personally...

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I do agree with you guys. I was at a local Cruise Night at Rutts Hut in Clifton, NJ last night and I was talking to the owner of 1967 Nova. The car was sitting on 14 inch Cragars and wrapped around 220/75/14s. Although the tires are too big for the Camaro, I got a very good idea on what the wheel and tire package looks like and costs. He said to get the Cragars from Summit because they are cheap. I think I will go to Coker for the tires. The owner also said his wheel and tire package cost under $800. I thought that price could fit anyones bugget! Not bad. Thanks for that feedback! Now onto tires. . . What should I do???

-Dan

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I do agree with you guys. I was at a local Cruise Night at Rutts Hut in Clifton, NJ last night and I was talking to the owner of 1967 Nova. The car was sitting on 14 inch Cragars and wrapped around 220/75/14s. Although the tires are too big for the Camaro, I got a very good idea on what the wheel and tire package looks like and costs. He said to get the Cragars from Summit because they are cheap. I think I will go to Coker for the tires. The owner also said his wheel and tire package cost under $800. I thought that price could fit anyones bugget! Not bad. Thanks for that feedback! Now onto tires. . . What should I do???

-Dan

PS - on the Camaro now are 195/75/14s, I want to get 205/75/14s. What should I do??

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Sell The Car Dan-, I can't take the suspense!-------- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]------ [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Thats weird whitetop. I see more Cragers in the Chi-town area than TT's. My father says that people in the inner city were running TT's more in the 60's (including himself) and the Cragers were the majority post 1970.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sell The Car Dan-, I can't take the suspense!-------- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]------ [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAH ... I can't run on wheels... i need some tires.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Frank-----In Brooklyn ,Chrome/reversed wheels first--- then early 60's cragars S/S ruled --they were the rim to have--I didn't get turned on to TORQUE/THRUST's until I started getting into Motion '67 --then in the early 70's Ansen Sprints took over, until they had the legal problem of copying the Ansen Sprint design from another rim company and went under.Just some Booklyn info.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

[ QUOTE ]

PS -.............. I want to get 205/75/14s............

[/ QUOTE ]

You will post pictures????

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Joe after reading your post I drilled the old man for some more wheel info. He said what you said before I even mentioned it about the chrome reverse. I even posted some vintage pics of his 55 Chevy hot rod a while back sporting chrome reverse and then some more pics with Keystone Kustomflite (TT style) mags on it. He also told me for the fella's that lacked a fat pocket in the 60's (him included) they used to get a set on steel wheels & paint them gloss black and get a set of bright chrome lug nuts for them to stand out. Some would add baby moons which he said would pop off if you hit a pot hole in Chicago! He also told me that he used to cut a piece of card board and paint half of the the wheel white so you got a psycadelic look when the wheel was rolling! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Here is a vintage pic of the 55 Chevy from Oct. 1968 with the Chrome reverse.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

You rarely see REAL TT wheels...just the re-pops.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Here is a pic of the 55 Chevy taken in July 1969 with the Keystones.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Your Dad's right about the baby moons and the chrome lug nuts on black painted rims------really reaching back now

Usually --I would see that wht/blk painted rim on the rear at least where we roamed.---- Had to pull that baby/moon stuff out of the cob-webs [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]-----THANKS FOR PIC [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Your Dad's also right about those baby/moons popping off on impact with a pothole---Man I can hear that baby/moon rolling down the street now [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I'm not 100% sure of this, but the Cragar SS wheels we all love came out about 1965.

I am working on bringing my 65 Chevelle back to it's high school days when I was runing the black rim/ chrome lug look. Chrome dust caps up front really set the look off. Probably gonna run a set of M&H's out back.

Paul T

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

OK, you're killing me w/ your 14" wheel choice. It's probably actually cheaper to get the 15X7 and 15X8 or 15X10 for the rear. As for the Here's what I came up with for some suggested 'retro feel' yet timeless choices for tires..pardon the detail:
Rear:
http://www.coker.com/viewinventoryim...ges/big/87.gif
* Size: P275/60-15
* Tread Depth: 12/32
* Polyester/Fiberglass belted construction
* Circumferential tread grooving provides maximum traction on wet and dry surfaces
* *Overall Diameter: 27.86
* *Cross Section: 10.50
* *Foot Print: 9.50
* Rims: 7 - 10
* Price: $135.00
Front:
http://www.coker.com/viewinventoryimage.asp?url=images/big/87.gif

* Size: P235/60-15
* Tread Depth: 11/32
* Polyester/Fiberglass belted construction
* Circumferential tread grooving provides maximum traction on wet and dry surfaces
* *Overall Diameter: 26.98
* *Cross Section: 9.70
* *Foot Print: 8.50
* Rims: 6.5 - 8
* Price: $130.00
OR:
Rear:
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/s...ortsman_i.html
....get the L-60/15's ***Great vintage look!*****
Front:
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/s...y_profile.html
....get the F-70/15's

PS
[ QUOTE ]
PS - on the Camaro now are 195/75/14s, I want to get 205/75/14s. What should I do??

[/ QUOTE ]
These will look puny...trust me, I've owned a handful of 2nd gen Camaro's. For a perspective on this, take a tape measure w/ a metric readout out to your car and look at how wide 205 MM is..that's how wide these tires would be at the widest point (i.e. sidewall bulge). Now, measure the car/truck that you drive to work and see how that relates. I'm guessing you'll get some perspective from this.

PPS attached are the Keystone's I was referring to earlier

-Mark

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

interesting. Did Keystone make a similar wheel to the TT? The Hot Rod 55 looks as if it has TT on it.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Mark has a good handle on the sizing we used back in the mid 70's. We always ran 15x6 on the front and 15 x 8 on the rear with short 70 or 78 series on the front and tall 60's on the rear. We'd put HD springs in the front to raise it up a bit and air shocks in the rear. I wouldn't do that on a car today, so my next car will get 15 x 7 Cragar SS's all the way around and I'll have blackwall radials. I'll also have a set of correct factory wheels and repop tires for those times that I want the bone stock look. Check out some of the pics on the second gen Camaro sites, they are bound to have some good examples.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Dan,

Nearly every wheel manufacturer made a copy of the TT in those days. Keystone made one with an alloy face and a steel rim. that was the most common type, probably because of cost. I had a couple of sets of those years ago. Fenton and Appliance made the most accurate copies of the TT since they were an all alloy wheel. Then you got into the Atlas, Astro, etc. Even Cragar got into it for a while with a matte finish, dark spoke version of the SS wheel. I currently have a full set of vintage TT s in 14x7 but they need some work on the lips due to contact with a curb. Also have a pair of 'no name' copies that even have the peaked spokes. They are in very good condition. I just recently bought a set of the new Torque Thrust "D"s to go on my '57 Bel Air, if I ever get it finished. Unfortunately the choices for the new TT D's is limited. I wanted 14 x 7's all around but they're not available so I went with 14 x 6 fronts and 15 x 7 rears. Now I'm leaning toward having the vintage TT's refinished and putting them on a '69 Nova!!!

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Not bad. Those Vintage TT when restored would look great on a Bel Air! I think Super Chevy or Chevy High Pro. did a spread on restoring wheels. I sure I can dig up the article somewhere.

-Dan

I am going to use 205/75/14s with cragars. Should I use a black wall or white wall? I like the way the white walls look on the Camaro.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

15x10 deep dish Cragars and N50-15 tires look great on the back of a '70-'73 Camaro. Run 15x4's up front on 5.60 or 6.00 bias ply front tires. Raise the front of the car slightly.
A very close second on the back is 15x8 Cragars deep dish with L-60-15's.

You are kidding about whitewalls on a Camaro are you not? If not you should also run the tissure dispenser/trash can that mounts on the tranny hump and the beaded wood seat cushions, rubber anti-lightning strips and red flourecscent tape on the bumpers to make it complete. Also don't forget the latest issue of AARP on the front seat to show that you are a groovin guy. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Dave

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Dave,
Be careful with the comments about whitewalls. You don't want to get Marlin started! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

It's o.k. to run whitewalls on a Nova. They are nothing but granny cars anyway. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Fhayka

This is how I remember 2nd generation Camaros from the '70's

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's o.k. to run whitewalls on a Nova. They are nothing but granny cars anyway. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Thanks for all of the help guys! I am putting my order in right now for 14 by 7 Cragars. I do not want to modify any body panels so I am playing it safe with 14's. As for rubber I am looking at Dunlop Radial GT Qualifiers (rasied white letter) identical to the tires on the motion above ( https://www.yenko.net/attachments/48046-70keystones.jpg )

Do any of you guys know where can purchase the tires?

-Dan

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Any local non-affilliated tire store should be able to get them from a wholesaler. For sizing, run 215/70/14 or 235/60/14. These have similar diameters to the 205/75/14 you're thinking about, and a 205/70/14 will look awful on a 7" rim (too skinny). Neither should pose any rubbing threat with non-reverse offset Cragars (3.5" backspacing, I think?)

At any rate, ask the tire guy what the TREAD WIDTH dimension is on the tires you're looking at. This dimension is less than the cross sectional size measured at the sidewall bulges, which is denoted in millimeters in the tire size (i.e. the 235 in 235/60/14). I like the tread to be at least as wide as the wheel for a properly proportioned look. (No snickering from you big baloney and pizza cutter Street Freak types!)

[This thread reminds me that I need to put my set of 14"x7" Keystone RAIDERS with new BFG TA's on the parts board. Raiders are Keystone's Cragar s/s-knockoff design. Interestes parties should go there now if interested [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]]

Good luck!

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Thanks guys! I greatly appreciate it.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Dan
A 15x8 Cragar wheel (with standard 4 1/4 backspacing) with a 235-245-60-15 rear tire will fit on the rear of your car and still be inside the rear fenderwell and will not rub at all. I think even a 275-60 rear tire would work fine. I would put a 14x6 or 14x7 on the front with a F-70 or F-60 size tire.
A 14x7 on the rear is too small with the small tires you want to run. Those 2nd generation cars had big rear wheelwells.
I found a Camaro with 15x8's and 275-60's on it and will post a pic this Sunday.
Dave

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

What was the original wheel and tire size for the 70 Z/28? They used a pretty wide tire. I think it was F60x15.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I have had BFG T/As at 275 60R 15 fit on stock Z Wheels and under the wells with no rubbing.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

What's the widest tire that will fit under a 69. I've been told 235x60x15 on standard offset wheels.

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

I did not order anything yet because I had feeling this would happen. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] . . . I called a local Mavis shop just 20 minutes before the black out occurred so he did not call me back with the tire options and sizes. I wanted to get a 15 inch wheel but I had a fear because my Camaro is not an SS or a Z. It is a plane Jane Camaro. If I run 15 inch wheels, then I am going to have to get something like a 225(?)/70(?)/15? I obviously can run wider tires in the back. What would you recommend? Half the trouble I am having with picking out tires, is that I have never upgraded sizes. I have always stayed the same with my cars. This whole process is a learning experience for me. Thanks for baring with me.

-Dan

Re: Wheels . . . . ?
 

Yes Joe, the info that I have on the F-60 15's (stock Z)is this: tread 8.8" tread width(223.52mm), 9.2" sectional width (233.68mm) and 25.9" tall.

As for the '69, I had a friend who used stock rally's and 255/60/15's w/ no rubbing issues.

-Mark