1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Today i found a 70 gto judge ram air iv, 4-speed car. This is a two owner car, and second owner has had it for 30 yrs. He said it is 1 of 116 built. It is polar white with red interior. He said he used to drag race the car in the 80"s, and is sitting in a garage on blocks with crager wheels and M&H drag slicks. He also said the car has had a frame off resto years ago. The paint is starting to show age, car is probably #2 condition. He says it has all original matching numbers drivetrain. Also has pop, window sticker, build sheet. What would a car like this be worth? Roger

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Sorry .... I jumped the gun and thought it was a convertable.

-Dan

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Cool sounding car. My research shows that a car like that
should be around 40-45 thousand. Nice ram air 3 cars can be had still for in the 30 range. Board member Pat Joiner has
a real nice car if your looking for a 70 Judge. Just my 2 cents. Bill

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

They made 397 of these cars. White was a popular color although I haven't seen too many red trimmed cars. They were only available with 3.90 or 4.33 gears. It is a monster and should be able to keep muscle with more cid at bay.

I am unsure of the value, but in excellent condition it's worth more than 40.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

RA4,Judge,4sp=115 Sounds Right. The question is, how many '70 RA5's,Judge,4sp?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I am going by memory here, but 397 Judges were RAIV. 72 of those were automatic. The difference is greater than what he is saying. Neither here nor there, but what else is not correct that the owner is saying?

If you're interested in the car, get the documentation from PHS. This will show whether it's a RAIII, 455, or RAIV.

Also, no RAV cars were built from the factory in ANY Poncho.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Was the RA V Pontiac GTO dragstrip tested in S/S magazine a dealer built car? It was a hardtop model. Thanks.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Here's a picture of a 1970 ra5 Judge after sitting 30 years. Just 20 miles from the original owners,Knafel Pontiac.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

COOL pic...what is going on with the car?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Charles, I do not know what car you're talking about. Is it a blue and white car from Royal Pontiac? That car originally started as a RAIV.

Astock, are you implying the car came that way with the RAV?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

W30,
Are you a betting man? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

The judge appeared real and can be documented by the buildsheet and pop. I was working, so did not have lots of time to kill. I will have to call him and see if the car can be bought. My interest in this car is because it was sold new locally in madison,Wi. and i used to mow the dealership owners lawn when i was a kid. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Roger

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I think it's safe to say if Knafel or Royal wanted a RA V they could get it !

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

ALL RA V'S WERE DEALER INSTALLED! ASK JIM MATTISON [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

There is one in the latest Hemmings. It is yellow on black and is going for $43K and change.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

GTO Don
I think Belair62 knows what he's talking about,and I'm still willing to wager with any takers. I have the vin # I'll fax to Jim M. and we'll let him post the results. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

IVE BEEN BUYING AND COLLECTING GTO'S FOR OVER 20+ YEARS AND KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE COLLECTED GTO'S. IVE HAD ALOT OF JUDGES INCLUDING OVER 10 RAM IV'S AND I WOULD BET THAT CAR YOU TALK ABOUT IS NOT A RA V CAR. LET ME KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO BET.........DON [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I didn't mean to say whether it was factory or not...just that Royal and Knafel would have definitely been first in line to get the RA V engine.Don I'm sure you would agree those dealers could get whatever they wanted.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I had this same arguement with a Guy a couple weeks ago . He has been building and racing Pontiacs since the 60's. He said there is one on Display in Detroit with the Window Sticker Etc that has been around forever. He says Jim Mattison will kinow of it... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]GTO Don, you need to bet him because he was willing to bet the Farm also....

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

First, my apologies for this non Chevy supercar related thread.You mean ONLY twenty years don't you Don. Just kidding. Heck, you kids need to remember "never say never". I tend to agree with Belair on this one. Although memories get fuzzy, Bill Knafel could have received the one & only RA V from the factory, and, nobody else could have known about it but he and Delorean. He claims he DID. I know he received a car I own with some "special" treatments, including no seam sealer or other weight adding items that "couldn't" be deleted. Acording to Arlen Vanke who wrenched on this car from day one, it arrived from Pontiac with an engine built by Pontiac engineering, with a one off intake manifold. This RA IV ran 12 flat, with an occasional high 11. Not bad for 400 C.I./376 horse, close to two ton car.
My point is, with that kind of performance, Knafel, as far as dealers, was the standard bearer for Pontiac. To think that he could get anything he wanted is reasonable.
I realize that official records may not show a RA V delivered from the factory, but, strange things happened that were "off the books" back then.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

HEY MIKE, NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR A RAM IV! ALL THE CHEVY GUYS ARE STARTING TO SEE THE LIGHT. ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE RAIV. NOW IM KIDDING! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I AGREE THAT WITH PONTIACS,NOTHING IS ETCHED IN STONE. BUT I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE NO FACTORY RA V GTO'S IN 1970. THEY DEVELOPED THE 303 CUBIC INCH RA V FOR THE TRANS AM. IN 69 THE 400 RA V WOULDN'T STAY TOGETHER. CASE IN POINT ,LOOK AT THE CRYSTAL TURQUIOSE 69 BOBCAT CAR, IT WAS A RAIV AND THEY PUT A V IN IT AND IT BLEW UP LEFT AND RIGHT. THE TIN INDIAN YOU HAVE IS A IV CAR,RIGHT? AND BESWICKS CAR IS A IV ALSO. ANYWAY ITS GOOD TALKING WITH YOU MIKE,NOW LETS START TALKING YENKO'S AGAIN! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] BY THE WAY ITS BEEN 25 YEARS [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

MikeG,
It's listed on the PHS invoice second from the bottom as Spec Perf $280. And the last item on the invoice is just an amount of $52 without discription, just the code. Keep in mind, this is in addition to RA 3 Judge package $300(ballpark) and RA 4 $300 (ballpark). I'm more than happy to take Don's money. And you are right, Mike. Knafle was able to get some really odd ball stuff. Bill Knafle and his son spent a lot of time and effort trying to locate this car. If I would have known that, I would have sold them the car.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I have to agree with GTODON. The RA V was first made in 69 for the Trans Am to compete in the Trans Am racing series where as you Chevy guys know the CID limit was 305.The 400 CID version was to see street use in the GTO but was stopped by management. Many sources including Paul Zazarine and Tom DeMauro have stated that no Ram Air V engines where factory installed. Ram Air V's were counter motors and if any found there way between the fenderwells they were dealer installed. The most famous RA V GTO is the 1969 Royal Bobcat GTO which was Crystal Turquois with white stripes. Could Knaefel and Royal get these motors absulutely yes, did they sell a few, more then likely. But just like Motion cars without the proper paperwork to back up the work, talk is cheap. The spec perf option that you list as a $280 option I would slide the decimal over to the left because for about $2.80 you could step up to 4:33 gears in a GTO. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

This was a good segment------------- web page

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Thanks !!! Enough said [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

RAIV King

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

For sure. If it's on My Classic Car, It MUST be accurate.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I bought some parts and in the pile was some interesting Pontiac parts. There are two old RAM AIR IV decals and 455 HO decals along with a crazy looking FI unit. They came from a "old drag racer" I was told. The decals look old.
see attch

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

close up of decals

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

I'm not sure I like the crazy bubbly letters. Kind of looks disco-ish!

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

[ QUOTE ]
For sure. If it's on My Classic Car, It MUST be accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Oh I am sorry that a television story that I did not even know about backed up what I was discussing. Thank God that the PHS documents exist for Pontiac Enthusiasts and that Jim Mattison cannot be bought off. Because if he did not exist there would be a lot of Ram Air V GTO's around bringing high dollars like some of the Super Cars out there. I can't wait for the fire sale of supposed big block Chevy's and Super cars when the Chevy docs are available.

I bet a lot of people are lobbying against these documents to be released to the public. I bet it will be like the old Heinz Ketchup commericials. Anticipation , it's making me wait; I hope I don't lose my shirt on a fake!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

All I know is that my RA IV Judge is the real deal all original paperwork , all numbers match , all original sheet metal and did I forget to mention, purchased from the original owner. Cars with paperwork, true stories and a documented history are what bring the bucks for any make, leave the mythology to the Greeks.

This is Zeus signing off!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Cool find thos e 455 HO decals are used on 71 and 72 GTO's with the 455 HO option as well as 71 Judges. The RA IV decals can be used on 69 to 70 GTO's, Trans Ams nver had any decals installed on the shaker units or the forward scoops on the 69 -70 model years. What kind of intake is that and is it set up for fuel injection ?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Astock, still a bettin' man? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Someone posted "talk is cheap." How cheap? $5000 cheap? Or would you like to go more?

I will send my end to Charlie, Belair, or Sixtiesmuscle whenever. Who's on?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Hey Zeus,
Don't sign off yet.You've been doing a pretty good job of giving the Pontiac community a black eye with your embarrassing posts.I think it's time for you to step up to the plate.
Just think,you'll get your chance to show me where to move the decimal point for the g80 430 gears.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

none,the R A 5 was never a production gto.this was only added by dealers or owners.the heads and intake could be bought over the counter.but never came factory.royal pontiac built a few RA5 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] cars but there again after market.

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Wood
I'm confused by your post.Are you putting up your money or just doing more talking. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

Wow, cool thread (I live for this sh*t)! I'm going to agree w/ Belair62 and say YES...these dealers (Knafel/Royal) could get anything they wanted as far as Pontiac's were concerned. But, I'm going to embelish on his statement and say that they could get access to the limited amount of RA-V "crate" engines to perform the conversion if they wanted to. JoeG brought an excellent point to the table. When I 1st saw that segment I nearly jumped up off my soap-box screaming "They never installed a RA-V from the FACTORY". They went on to explain what's in the text of the web page and I could go back to drinking my Yoo-hoo with my previous beliefs intact. The only RA-5 dealer conversion that I know of (personally) is the blue (turquoise)/white Royal 69 car. That's not to say that other conversions werent't built by dealers 'after the assy. line' but I'd help back 442W30 w/ $500 on the 5K wager that 'AStock's car is not a production line car. BTW, I'm one of 'kids' on this board so I could be wrong...but I'll back this belief w/ cash.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]
When I was 12 I won a $100 bet w/ my step father that they did indeed build a FI 283/283 57 Chevy...I'm ready for more!

-Mark Holman
PS Anyone wanna buy a factory built LS-7 Chevelle?

Re: 1970 gto judge ram air IV
 

ASTOCK here is an excerpt from the Pontiac GTO Restoration Guide. Page 381. " Finally, the Ram Air IV Super Duty: Research indicates that approximately seventy of these engines may have been released for public consumption in 1970. The Ram Air IV Super Duty consisted of a Ram Air V bottom end and Ram Air IV heads, intake manifold, and carburetion. No Ram Air V engines were released from the factory for public consumption, although it was possible to order all the necessary Ram Air V components over the counter. Occassionally a Ram AIr V will turn up, but it was not built on the assembly line for sale in a 1970 GTO. Evidence also indicates the installation of a few RA IV SD engines in 1970 Trans Ams. "

Read my previous posts if any dealer would have access to a RA V engine it would be Knafel or Royal. It was dealer installed and many people will back that up.

The Ram Air V was a counter motor. Unless someone has a specified code on a legitimate build sheet or PHS that states RA V then I will stand by my statments.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]