P-T-B
 

When puttting the PTB on the firewall was the ( B ) put on before the painting of the car or after? I would assume the P was after, and the T was also after the paint was on. If this is true would and could the ( B ) have some overspray from the body color.

Re: P-T-B
 

That is a very good question. I would ask Jerry MacNeish and Brian Henderson and compare notes. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Sam

Re: P-T-B
 

I have many photos of original untouched firwalls and I have never noticed any overspray on the 'B'. I even put some on the computer and did a CSI style blowup. Cannot see any evidence of body color. Good question though...BKH

Re: P-T-B
 

Brain, I have been told by a reliable sourse that the PBT was the last thing Fisher Body did before the body (firewall back) was released to the Chevrolet side of the plant. There were two inspectors at the end of the line who check the P-paint, B-body(sheetmetal) and T-trim. So, the markings would be on top of any paint.

On a side note, the firewall crayon markings will be under the firewall paint.

Re: P-T-B
 

That is what I have always seen. Thanks..BKH

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My LA built JL8 car had the broadcast sheet sequence # written on the firewall on the driver's side. It was hidden by the fender so it was in good original condition when I took the car apart. I could't tell if it was chalk or crayon, but it was written on top of the black firewall paint. There was also some writing on the center of the firewall that was either "72" or "Z28" and since my car is Hugger Orange, I thought it was "72". It appears the LA plant did things differently than Norwood.

Re: P-T-B
 

in the jerry macneish Z/28 fact book there is a really good picture of an original firewall with the PTB stamps on it. if you look close you can see the overspray on the "b" as if
it was stamped on before the body was painted the color.
the picture is on the top of page 184. hope this helps!

Re: P-T-B
 

My 02D built Z11 had the orange "P" and "B" behind the A/C evaporator housing with no overspray. The "T" was below the firewall data plate, again with no eveidence of overspray. The remains of the crayon marking "C60" and a "23" were visible under the blackout firewall paint. I can scan the photos in and try to link them here if you need them. Happy Holidays, NJSteve

Re: P-T-B
 

I had PTB under my evaporator box, as well. I didn't have the foresight to photograph it, but I'm not going to remove it now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: P-T-B
 

[ QUOTE ]
My LA built JL8 car had the broadcast sheet sequence # written on the firewall on the driver's side. It was hidden by the fender so it was in good original condition when I took the car apart. I could't tell if it was chalk or crayon, but it was written on top of the black firewall paint. There was also some writing on the center of the firewall that was either "72" or "Z28" and since my car is Hugger Orange, I thought it was "72". It appears the LA plant did things differently than Norwood.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree......my Van Nuys 68 Z28 has what appears to be "Z28" in crayon under the heater core cover. No signs of P-T-B on the firewall as Norwood did.

Can anyone else shed light on this subject?

Re: P-T-B
 

My LA built '68 Z28 also has no evidence of P T B on the firewall. I've never had the heater box cover off yet. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: P-T-B
 

I think the PTB stamps were only used by Norwood.

Re: P-T-B
 

[ QUOTE ]
in the jerry macneish Z/28 fact book there is a really good picture of an original firewall with the PTB stamps on it. if you look close you can see the overspray on the "b" as if
it was stamped on before the body was painted the color.
the picture is on the top of page 184. hope this helps!

[/ QUOTE ]

Z28's (and Z10, Z11's) may have overspray on the PTB stamps becasue the front stripes were painted by GM in their paint line, not Fisher. If the plant (most noticably Norwood) got the stripe color overspray onto the firewall, then they would need to touch up the offending areas. LA seemed to have a much better masking system then Norwood and hardly ever got overspray onto the firewall. although they also did not use the P T B stamps. Orange PTB stamps indicate the car was inspected during day shift, Green PTB indicates night shift. People with two different colors just reapplied them wrong. Norwood was pumping out 52 to 55 cars an hour, I doubt there is a situation where one car had one or two inspections on day shift and the remaining ones on night shift.

Re: P-T-B
 

MARK C..Hi I'm in Arlington Mass!...I have 2 Norwood 67's..One had a P on the cowl side (door hinge area). My Pacecar has no T's? The P&B are visible under the blower motor but have white spattered paint ontop of them..This paint is also all over the passengers side toe board area..I cannot figure that out and I'm the first guy in there since the factory.. On the drivers side I have a P&B on the "X" shape behind the fender..Next to them is orange grease pencil that says " TOP OK ".. It was obviously written before the nose went on but I wonder if it means the mechanical function of the manual top skeleton or the fit and finish of the cloth? Anyone else ever seen this? I've never seen green anywhere and I've had 4 norwoods apart that I ever bothered to check for. My front fender extensions have very large white grease pencil RSC 's written on both sides..I assume Rally Sport Convertible as those two distinctions bore relevence to what the nose would be ( vibration canisters and hidder headlamps) Anyone ever seen that before? Thanks Tom

Re: P-T-B
 

i have added a photo of a fire wall that has the original PTB stamping on it. i hope the photo is clear enough to see. it has the P and B in green and the T in orange and they are the factory stampings. the 69 z28 is a 10 D of 69 built car https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: P-T-B
 

Thanks,Mine is just the opposite.Green "T" .....07E 68..

Steve

Re: P-T-B
 

I guess you could have two colors tougher,maby the day shift started the car and the night shift finished it so two colors would apply.

Re: P-T-B
 

Little Tommie..thanks..Ive never seen that combo before(then again I only look at 67's that intently)..appreciate it..Whose authority claims that green is night and orange is day? Maybe it was just a pile of stamps and a few different guys who started not to care after a while and considered it only important to show they were doing their jobs..these people where only human and how many guys cars could have been the one at the end of the line when the shift started/stopped??????I smell a better explaination is out there for this..how about too lazy to clean the orange off the stamp? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

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Another request..has anyone seen or have a photo of actual PTB's neatly lined up in plain view and in the order P T B just like so many restored cars have?..It's very contrived when people do that..I know cuz I've done it myself! Not any more though https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: P-T-B
 

Tom:
I believe the only way you'd ever find the PTB lettering lined up neat from the factory would be the one-in-a-million "hapenstance" chance. It was not important to line them up - just a job to do. None of my orig cars are even close to lined up.

Same is true for decals. Rarely were they on perfectly straight and lined up. All of this stuff is over-restoration. In the future, as cars continue to be restored better and better, you will see more deductions in scoring for cars restored better than new if, in fact, true factory originality is what is being judged. This is happening somewhat with the Corvette guys and overrestoration has been an issue for years with antiques and classics.

Remember, when you use a photo or look at someone's restored car (however nice it may be) to base your restoration on, you are duplicating their flaws. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif
Dave

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More and more "original" cars are showing up with two different color inspection stamps. I'm begining to think that instead of night and day shift, the colors indicate the results of the inspection. Green being everything was OK and Red/orange meaning somethin needed to be fixed. I've only seen one peice of an orange "B" on my firewall as the firewall had been painted black at least once before I got it. There was a peice of sealant stuck to the firewall about the size of a quarter and when I pulled it off one day, there was a section of the "B" behind it.

The "T" on your car could be under the heater duct, since the stamps were put on by Fisher just before the rear half of the body was sent to Chevrolet, and at that point neither the front fenders or the blower motor duct was put on. It also could have been painted over if GM needed to respray the firewall due to body color overspray. Sounds like your car spent some time in the GM paint repair booth.

Check out this link for the Norwood assembly Process:

CRG Norwood Assembly Process.

Re: P-T-B
 

I have also seen original cars with two color inspection marks. I once did a Pacer that was original with two colors. Restored it that way, and even had a negative article written about the firewall in a Camaro only magazine. The author didn't do his homework and got bombed with original pictures from people that sent him their info. He was of course wrong, but never made an effort to correct his mistake. That happens all the time...BKH