Million dollar camaro....
 

The 68 z28 convert. was a no sale at 1,100,000. The bidding action was strong, and pete estes son wanted to buy the car before going through auction. But car was contracted to go through the auction, and had to run the block. I have some pics from the auction. Roger

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pic

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pic 1

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pic 2 Going across the block. I have other pics of cool cars if interested. Roger

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Thanks Roger.
What did the Blue LS6 convert.do,as well as the 1969 Holub/Ernst Chevelle?
Give us the poop.
Rick

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Can you send all the pics of the 68 Z/Convt you took to me via Email? Mahalo

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I was told a Blue LS6 convert sold for about 130K but was advertised as #'s correct. I would assume that means it was a Clone.

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Hey Charlie, the documented LS6 went for $150,000 to a serious collector who will bring the car to the level it deserves and it will finally be off the market. The clone went for $135,000.

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Roger,
Thanks again for the info, do you know what the YENKO CAMARO/CHEVELLE brought??
Mark

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I did not see the yenko chevelle go through.

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The 69 yenko camaro, ex holub/ernst car was a no sale. Bid to 130k and reserve of 175k.

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Cliffs old 69 yenko camaro went to 147.5 and no sale. the seller wanted 170. The chevelle he had went to 137.000 and no sale. They were nice cars. A L/78 69 RS SS camaro went for 76.000 with no smog. # match

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Mark - Both were no sales the Chevelle went to $140,000 and the Camaro did $148,000.

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Wow!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

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I DON'T KNOW HOW TRUE THIS IS BUT I HEARD TODAY THAT PETE ESTES SON ENDED UP BUYING THE CAR AT $1.2 MILLION. KP https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

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Kenny,
The rumour is not true.
motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

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I still can't believe that car was bid over 1 million. Seems to be quite a bit of controversy over the "original" configuration of the car as built by Chevrolet. It's obviously the only first gen Z28 convertible built so that adds to the appeal. But then, I don't see how a hemi Challenger convertible without the original engine is worth 1 million dollars either. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it so I know it doesn't matter what I think it might be worth. It will still be interesting to see if it sells.

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Does anyone know the build date of this car? When was it made for Estes?I can understand the crossram and the other mods,but the cowl hood must be a super early piece.Was it built after the the hood hit production in 69?I'm not bashin the car just an honest question I've always had.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif


Steve

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From what I have read about the car, which is public information on other web sites or magazines, the car was built at the end of production, July 1968. I also saw reference that the subframe has been swapped, don't know what else, other than one of the front fenders. I don't think it has the "original" crossram, as it had a four barrel carb earlier in its life, in the early '90's. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I have read and gleened from past references. The subframe swap was on a website a couple of years ago, that detailed the recent restoration.
Not sure I can locate that review, maybe someone that is more web savvy than I can.

None of these changes should detract from this car, however. I think this is the most unique Z28 ever made, and it will sell for whatever that special person is willing to pay to obtain it.

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Yes, it is a very unique and desireable car. The question seems to be to the claim of it being a factory built crossram, JL8 Z28 conv. From what I have read, the car was built on the assembly line as a conv with the Z28 option and issued a POP showing the Z28 engine, trans and standard rear. The car then had the crossram, fiberglass hood and rear disc added in engineering or some department. Estes used the car for some length of time before Chevrolet took the car back, removed the crossram, hood and rear discs and sold the car in standard configuration to an employee. The car was restored with the crossram, hood and rear discs. That obviously adds value to the car, but claiming it was factory built that way becomes questionable. A very rare and unique car. And if I got anything wrong, please correct me.

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How is the engineering department not part of the factory? How does having those special parts installed in the engineering department detract form its authenticity and/or value?

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If the parts were installed on the assembly line then you could claim the car was built that way. But having those parts added after the car was already fully assembled would mean those parts are not original to the car. I think that's the difference that most people see with this particular car. This car has an interesting history to it and it gets really tough to describe or label the car.

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[ QUOTE ]
The car then had the crossram, fiberglass hood and rear disc added in engineering or some department.

[/ QUOTE ] Since the assembly line wasn't building Z/28 converts and it came off the standard line and went to Engineering for special fitment how could you NOT call it factory built ? It wasn't even sent out to an outside shop to have things installed like a lot of factory drag cars.I have never really heard anyone question whether this was a factory built car.

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The assembly line did build this Z28 conv and I believe it shows on the POP and I thought there was a window sticker too. But the crossram and rear disc brakes do not match the POP or window sticker. So that is not factory original. This is the way a lot of people view it. If you call this car factory original then anybody that bought over the counter parts has a factory original car because all the parts are original GM parts. You can call it a factory installed crossram, JL8 Z28 convert, but not factory original. I personally think there's a distinct difference. Factory original is how the car rolled off the assembly line, according to most classic car enthusiasts and experts. Again, this is a very special and unique car because of the original options and the added options. But the car was not built with those options and not sold with those options.

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I thought William G said that the only paperwork was a hand written shipper copy ? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

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Jim Mattison was up at the podium with the car....he held up a 6inch thick book of records and documents pertaining to the car....not sure what they consisted of...

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[ QUOTE ]
If you call this car factory original then anybody that bought over the counter parts has a factory original car because all the parts are original GM parts......... But the car was not built with those options and not sold with those options.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not quite sure of your comparison, because I think there is a distinct difference between over-the-counter parts installed by anyone (general public) and those installed by GM engineers before a car is released for use.

If it was documented that engineering and the assembly plant combined their efforts to create a unique package for that executive, the car has a neat heritage and could/should be labeled a GM factory original. Whether the line assembler or an engineer installed the parts, if it was done and documented at GM before it was used, it's a factory original.

If it's known that they again modified it after Estes gave up the car, that just adds a twist to it. However, restoring it in the form that Estes originally received it stays with the spirit of their (GM engineering's) intentions to get the program approved and makes it that much more interesting and valuable.

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"according to most classic car enthusiasts and experts"??? And YOU are speaking for them??? Maybe the guys YOU communicate with. I hate to get pissy, but, your whole position on this car really bugs me.

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Geez, I guess my statement is that it is not an original JL8 crossram car. There is no such thing as an original JL8 crossram car. My car is an original JL8 car that I'm adding the crossram to. This car is a 68 Z28 conv. I think William did refer to a POP and some paperwork, I don't know if that includes a window sticker or not so I'll take that back. The GM Tech Center which installed the crossram and rear discs is not the Norwood assembly plant. Let me ask this, how do you define the original pedigree of a car?

1) As delivered off the assembly line with POP and window sticker
2) As modified and delivered by a dealer(suchas Yenko, BM, Nickey)
3) As modififed and by the GM Tech Center(so would that make the RAV Pontiacs now original cars?)
4) As purchased by the consumer with full warranty

It can't be all 4 so pick one. It seems that too many people like to define it so it has the most appeal and value.

What's your position on this car?

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The car was built for Estes and there is a POP imprint that survives. I'm not aware of any documentation showing that it was converted by the Tech Center. Maybe there is some, but I haven't heard of it.
As configured now, the car is not factory original. It may be configured as modified by the Tech Center (if there's paper backing that up). That could be called GM original. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

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Another train wreck in the making. Please keep it a civil discussion but do keep it interesting. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

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I think it would be awesome if Jim M actually has some GM paperwork showing what really happened with this car. It's kind of like the 69 ZL1 with JL8 brakes that was at the Tech Center back in 69. If that car turns out to be a legit documented car it would be just as cool as this Z28 convertible.

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So who owns a "factory" crossram Z which had the set up installed on the assembly line https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

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[ QUOTE ]
So who owns a "factory" crossram Z which had the set up installed on the assembly line https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Those are pretty common. Lot of 1982 Z's had them, not a great setup though. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

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Kurt,
Pete Estes Z convert went down then line with standard rear drum brakes and standard Z-28 induction. It went from the end of the line to Chevrolet engineering before being issued to Pete and the crossram set up and JL8 brakes were installed immediatly with the correct hood. The car was then issued to Pete in that configuration which is how it remained for the several years he drove it on occassion. When the car was "officially" sold to a GM employee through a Chevy dealership in Detroit as a demo, it was first returned to GM engineering for ther speciality parts to be replaced with the standard RPO optioned equipment that was line installed. However, GM engineering had documented the addition and removal of the speciality equipment, those documents exist to this day as I have personally read them in a 6" thick binder of documentation that comes with the car. Al was so precise in the restoration process that he purchased a perfect car with the same production date within days, he removed the speciality RPO JL8 and cross ram set up to be re-installed on the rag top, everything is a perfect date code match right down to the rear end U bolts. This fine example of Chevrolet history now has a new owner of which I brokered the sale, I will leave it up to the new owner to make the announcement when he feels the time is right. Dont ask who or how much as I guard that type of personal information. Sorry Charlie, No train wreck here. With the owners permission I will post the GM engineering order for the addition and removal of the speciality items in the near future.
Motown

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Thanks Motown, that's what a lot of us would love to see, some of the GM paperwork. Does it say whether Estes ordered the car himself or if Vince had it built for him? It's such a late 68 car that it almost seems like they were using it as a prototype to show off the JL8 and crossram parts in anticipation of the 69 model year. Interesting to hear that it did sell and I imagine it will be the centerpiece of an impressive collection. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

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Jeff,
As the story was relayed to me the cross ram and JL8 were not on the car to showcase it to the public, but rather to get Pete to approve those additions on the Camaro. The design and engineering team decided the best way to get Pete to approve the project was to build one for him to test through driving the car with those options, the only glitch was Pete would very rarely drive anything but a convertible so therefore the only Z convertible was built with the special options installed to get Pete to drive the car, of which he approved of the set up and the rest is history. Since those options were not part of a actual factory build but rather an engineering model, if the car had been sold to the public when it was no longer of use there would have been liability/warranty issues so the options were removed by engineering. However, from the standpoint that the options were ordered to be installed on the car before it saw use, one could argue that they were a "Factory" build through tech, in some ways a technical COPO.
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

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Matt,

--------Congratulations on the sale! Im sure both parties benefitted from your help. And, since I havent had a chance to say so; welcome back, you were missed...........Bill S

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[ QUOTE ]
Al was so precise in the restoration process that he purchased a perfect car with the same production date within days, he removed the speciality RPO JL8 and cross ram set up to be re-installed on the rag top

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the only Z convertible was built with the special options installed to get Pete to drive the car, of which he approved of the set up and the rest is history.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do these two statements make sense together? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

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The cross ram and rear disc were parts that could be bought over the counter at that time for racing purposes(such as Trans Am), but could not be ordered as a RPO for a street vehicle. Even over the counter parts are date coded. The car he bought to use date coded parts from had been outfitted with those over the counter parts by the owner at the same time he took delivery on the car new, so the date codes were correct on the parts even though they too were not an assembly line part. The concept that I find humorous about the over the counter high performance parts available at that time for TA racing were designed and sold for one purpose only, Racing......this from an automaker who had withdrawn from the racing programs. Pete's rag top Z was an experiment in the feaseability of these hi performance add ons having the ability to function with some degree of normal operation in traffic conditions. The package passed the test and was then introduced as a dealer available RPO.
Thanks,
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif