70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Check out the build sheet for this car on Ebay. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif
Those who know will agree, I think.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Hey at least it's an[ QUOTE ]
Arazona Car

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

If it's fake, that's scary.....someone sure has the font and general appearance pretty damn close https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Bill,
I'm not familiar with build sheets from that time frame. Are the RPOs always listed alphabetically?

Verne

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Verne,

Yes, they are.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

[ QUOTE ]
If it's fake, that's scary.....someone sure has the font and general appearance pretty damn close https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a bit scary how close the fonts are, but several things jump out at me saying it's a fake made by someone that doesn't know certain things.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

I too have been to Kansas City,as well as Atlanta.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

It sure is mighty sporting of them to indicate "Not Original Motor" after going to the trouble of producing a bogus build sheet.
What's half honest worth?

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Well, I knew this was going to happen , They are getting better and better, the aging, the fonts as RixLS6 says is scary ,un-believable how accurate it is.Real quickly I found a few mistakes, that indicate it's a fake too but with minor changes to this sheet, I don't know how you could tell the difference between this and a real one !As RixLS6 did too, guys I wouldn't be too forthcoming on telling the website what's wrong with this sheet.I'm sad to say that were are going to be flooded with "Documented" cars real soon !!

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

why go to that trouble and not stamp the "restoration" motor for the big bucks? maybe current seller was duped?

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Now that makes sense Chris!

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey at least it's an[ QUOTE ]
Arazona Car

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

....that was originally delivered to Valdosta GA according to the fake build sheet https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif Also, if faking the build sheet, why not put the C60 Air Cond on there https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

I would think that any car delivered new to a Georgia GM dealer should of been built at the Atlanta plant plus that vin number shows that it was built at the Kansas plant on November 69 not March 70 as per the build sheet shown.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

its hard to sit and watch some poor sap get shafted on this car, the currant owner may have no idea??

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would think that any car delivered new to a Georgia GM dealer should of been built at the Atlanta plant

[/ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

[ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a Leeds built 1970 car that was delivered to a California dealer, when you'd think it would have been built at Van Nuys.

I did this in a couple posts at TC, and I think Bruce did it here as well - we need to start listing VINs in our threads so that future owners can come to the boards and dig up this info on their cars. Once the ebay listing is gone, its gone.

Here goes: 1970 Chevelle SS convertible on ebay, VIN 136670K133115 red with black top and interior. Being sold by ebay user do00065 from Crystal Lake, IL

And why not have the fake build sheet image posted as well, so that if the mistakes are corrected, there's still the evidence of the "original" fake one.

http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu//fac/se...dsheetfake.jpg

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

PLEASE don't post specific errors in phony documents! The crooks don't need any help......
Dave

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

I feel like Dave. Keep the little oddities to yourself. I just happen to know a thing or two about COPO Chevelles that can make some fakes stand out like a sore thumb. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a Leeds built 1970 car that was delivered to a California dealer, when you'd think it would have been built at Van Nuys.

I did this in a couple posts at TC, and I think Bruce did it here as well - we need to start listing VINs in our threads so that future owners can come to the boards and dig up this info on their cars. Once the ebay listing is gone, its gone.

Here goes: 1970 Chevelle SS convertible on ebay, VIN 136670K133115 red with black top and interior. Being sold by ebay user do00065 from Crystal Lake, IL

And why not have the fake build sheet image posted as well, so that if the mistakes are corrected, there's still the evidence of the "original" fake one.

http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu//fac/se...dsheetfake.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
Because this is just one car and we should protect the hobby.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

I Totally agree , don't reveal the mistakes!

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

I agree also about posting specific mistakes, which is why I didn't point any out in my post. If the sheet does ever get corrected, it will be hard to explain the copy of the one we have in this post.

Although I agree with Bill and others that there is some concern with the fake build sheets getting better, I am optimistic that very soon we will see the collector car market respond with some document authentication service offerings.

I have no background in this area, but I'm sure that there are experts who can easily detect whether paper and ink are 37 years old or just made to look that way. Document forgeries have been happening for centuries, but modern technology has come a long way. Combine that with some expert knowledge of the correct information to be found on a sheet, and the fakers will be stopped dead in their tracks.

Weighing a cost of $100-$200 for this type of service against a $30000-$60000 purchase price seems like a no-brainer. Whether its done for-profit or established by some car hobby governing bodies, this needs to be available.

Re: 70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet
 

Just did a little digging on the internet, and found a ton of info on document examination. Here's one brief explanation:

"Forensic document examination is the scientific examination of handwriting, hand printing, alterations, obliterations, indented writing, typewritten and machine made documents, photostatic copies, ink and paper analysis, possible dating and other related document problems.
Documents examined are subjected to various types of non-destructive examinations; such as, visual, ultraviolet, infrared, microscopic, photographic and indentation examinations."

My prediction is that it will just be a matter of time before we start to see cars on the market with "certified" documentation, and sales of collector cars being contingent upon documentation examination.

The scammers are going to be screwed if they have to answer the question, "Is there a problem with making the deal contingent upon expert examination of the buildsheet?"