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-   -   chevelle build sheets (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=91697)

jimclemens 03-27-2007 04:16 AM

chevelle build sheets
 
FOR THOSE CONCERNED WITH REPRODUCTION 1970 CHEVELLE BUILD SHEETS. HELLO, MY NAME IS JIM CLEMENS. I AM THE ONE ADVERTISING IN HEMMING'S MOTOR NEWS. I HAVE BEEN IN THE CORVETTE AND CHEVROLET LITERATURE BUSINESS SINCE 1988. JUST SO EVERYONE READING WILL KNOW, I AM NOT TRYING TO HIDE FROM ANYONE. FOR THOSE INTERESTED, THE '70 CHEVELLE BUILD SHEETS I OFFER ARE ADVERTISED AS A QUALITY REPRODUCTION PIECE. NOT ORIGINAL. THEY ARE MADE TO COMPLEMENT A RESTORATION, JUST AS ANY OTHER REPRODUCTION PART, RESTAMPED ENGINE OR REPAINTED CAR. IF ANYONE OUT THERE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WHAT I DO, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL. (321) 639-8431. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH VINTAGE AUTOMOBILES FOR QUITE SOME TIME. IF OTHER HAVE REMARKS THEY WILL POST, PLEASE BE WELL INFORMED ON WHAT YOU SAY BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN WRITING. I ONLY OFFER THE ITEM, I AM NOT THE ONE ALTERING THE CAR OR MISREPRESENTING THE CAR. I DO HAVE FORMS THAT ARE FILLED OUT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP AND OTHER INFORMATION, PRIOR TO MAKING ANY BUILD SHEET. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ. JIM CLEMENS - ROCKLEDGE, FL.

olredalert 03-27-2007 04:24 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
--------For what its worth, I have known Jim for a long time and as far as I am concerned he is one of the good guys. Hope I dont get slammed as some here seem ready to prejudge the people who supply stuff that helps a resto but in reality is easy to pick from the real thing........Bill S

mockingbird812 03-27-2007 05:42 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Bill - having had the opportunity to speak with you in Scottsdale this January I appreciate what you are saying. But there are a couple of things that concern me with Mr. Clemens posting. There is a big difference between a repro part for a car such as an exhaust manifold or a repro car brochure and a buildsheet which may be misrepresented or mistaken for a real one and add significant value to a car. Your statement "I AM NOT THE ONE ALTERING THE CAR OR MISREPRESENTING THE CAR." is merely turning a blind eye to the rampant proliferation of fake and misrepresented cars. You may not intend for the item to be misused, but more often than not they do NOT end up being used to just "COMPLEMENT A RESTORATION".

I have been fortunate so far to have never been burned by fake docs (altho I've seen plenty), but I have seen many decent folks get burned and it saddens me. I believe (my opinion) that it is dangerous to put repro buildsheets in the same category as reproduction parts for a restoration. I suppose its your right to sell them, but don't delude yourself into thinking that they will be used for honest purposes most of the time.

And finally, you come across quite threatening with a statement like this..."IF OTHER HAVE REMARKS THEY WILL POST, PLEASE BE WELL INFORMED ON WHAT YOU SAY BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN WRITING." Maybe you don't frequent these forums much, but the primary purpose is to have people comment on your postings. You may not agree, like, or support the responses, but that is how it works.

JoeG 03-27-2007 05:49 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
It's a little late to try to fix the misrepresentations from the past, but if these copy buildsheets are being done as to complete a restoration,why can't a paper with a watermark be used, which can't be seen unless held up to the light. --If only for display purposes....Just curious.......

COPO427 03-27-2007 05:52 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Sure would be interesting to see the print on those repos since I printed buildsheets in the 70's at GM.

COPO427 03-27-2007 05:55 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Under a black light. You know a watermark will never fly when there's $$ to be made.

JoeG 03-27-2007 06:00 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
That's my point--If used for "display" or just to complete a restoration any type of non-visible watermark shouldn't be a problem...........

MYSTERYCHEVELLE 03-27-2007 06:08 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Or how about this novel idea.. Just Stamp Said Reproduction as oh, I don't know.. maybe.. "REPRODUCTION" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Rixls6 03-27-2007 06:20 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
As long as the reproduction sheet is easy to tell that it's a repo, I don't have a problem with it.

When you start making sheets that are hard to tell from the "Real Thing", then I think production of the repos should stop.
If it's not intended to help fake a car then the reproduction buildsheet should easily be detected as a repo.

427king 03-27-2007 06:32 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
The 12.00 window stickers that have been in hemmings for 20 years can fool half the buyers out there,they are VERY good . In order to make them easy to be detected i think theyd have to be written in crayon.

budnate 03-27-2007 06:40 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Jim two questions for you so we are all clear, you didnt really say in your post.

you stated -IF OTHER HAVE REMARKS THEY WILL POST, PLEASE BE WELL INFORMED ON WHAT YOU SAY BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN WRITING

this sounds like lawyer talk?, you coming after people who dont agree with you on this subject???

is there a reason you cant print these sheets with some type of text on back like
"for show only"???

Thnx for your response.

Rixls6 03-27-2007 06:41 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
I never heard of anyone buying a car on the window sticker's say-so alone, but I guess it may have happened.

427king 03-27-2007 06:42 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Rick, remember one thing.There are many buyers out there that think Ls6s had factory AC and aluminum heads . Do you think they know the correct font on a piece of paperwork?? Maybe the answer is to put "Honest Als Used Cars 5555 Main St Anywhere USA ' where the dealer name goes ??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

JoeG 03-27-2007 06:56 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
I just thought taking the guess work out of the paper the document was printed on without going to a nuclear facility to get it carbon dated would make the issue of the fonts /ink being perfect not an issue-----"If the intent is for display to complete the visual of a restoration in the first place ".........Honest Al is good.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

ohhawk 03-27-2007 07:01 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
As part of this gentleman's offering are these buildsheets purposely aged in their apprearance?

427king 03-27-2007 07:02 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Seriously, if the intent is for display they should have small print stating "for displayonly" or "repro" on the page. Everyone has a right to sell whatever theyd like, but lets not think these papers are only being used for "display" purposes. People sell Elvis jumpsuits on ebay, if you think the King wore it, thats your problem not the sellers https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

JoeG 03-27-2007 07:09 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Gees and I bought one of those suits.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif.........Yeah I know --Let the buyer beware.....It seems almost like this bogus document thing is becoming "openly" the accepted practice in the Hobby..... I Can't remember the last time a fella went on e-bay wanting to pass some bogus 50 dollar bills ... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif---..

MYSTERYCHEVELLE 03-27-2007 07:50 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
It seems almost like this bogus document thing is becoming "openly" the accepted practice in the Hobby

[/ QUOTE ]

NOT IF WE CONTINUE TO DENOUNCE THE ENTIRE IDEA THAT THESE REPROS. ARE BEING MADE FOR DISPLAY PURPOSES ONLY..and maybe we are making a dent if the producers of such garbage are feeling the pressure to come on an open web message board and say something??

You want me to buy the idea that they are for display purposes, then step up and stamp them as such.. small, on the corner or back side.. until that is done.. I don't buy the smoke and mirrors.

L78M22Rag 03-27-2007 09:17 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
FOR THOSE INTERESTED, THE '70 CHEVELLE BUILD SHEETS I OFFER ARE ADVERTISED AS A QUALITY REPRODUCTION PIECE. NOT ORIGINAL. THEY ARE MADE TO COMPLEMENT A RESTORATION, JUST AS ANY OTHER REPRODUCTION PART, RESTAMPED ENGINE OR REPAINTED CAR..... I DO HAVE FORMS THAT ARE FILLED OUT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP AND OTHER INFORMATION, PRIOR TO MAKING ANY BUILD SHEET.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim, I believe you're misusing the term "REPRODUCTION" for your buildsheets. If you were merely reproducing an original buildsheet, no one would be misled... but we all know a reproduced buildsheet would be unnecessary if someone had the original. What does "PROOF OF OWNERSHIP" have to do with this topic? If you had proof or documentation on a car (like a POP) and re-produced a buildsheet accordingly, nobody would be harmed... but many would still have a problem with that if it was represented as being an original buildsheet.

Would you have a problem if a terrorist claimed... "I'm innocent. I only made the bomb, someone else used it" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

chads454Ls6 03-27-2007 09:24 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Jim,i was told you also do protecto plates as well. What drivetrain is put on the pop? Does that document have any kind of stamp for fake or repop? Just trying to get informed.

COPO427 03-27-2007 05:32 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
You guys all know that it comes down to this.
Joe Blow buys a US 350 Chevelle and clones it to a LS6 or a L78. Or even change a SS396/350 car to the big $$ makers. LS5,LS6,L78. The difference is mega mega $$$$$ difference. SO that's why they need the build sheet. Build 1 clone per year and you don't have to work for a living. Build a handfull of clones and you can retire. This isn't rocket science. If everyone just buys Canadian Chevelles then they can call GM vintage for the option list and this would stop people buying clones as the real McCoy. Then you may see the clones advertised as cones and the prices would be lower than the real cars.

Steve Shauger 03-27-2007 05:55 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
You still run into rebodied rust buckets and restamped drivetrains. That paperwork only identifies how the car was originally equipped based on the VIN , it in no way documents the cars pedigree. Yes it is great documentation, however it doesn't prove anything in terms of if this car still retains it orig body, or drivetrain. With the paperwork you still could have a clone of an actual car.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

3macs1 03-27-2007 06:16 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
So true Steve. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif I am more careful looking at canadian cars than US ones.Rebody is very common.There are guys that make their living for 20 plus years now bringing back rust free US shells to canada.I got beat to death on this on another site but was just being honest.On one of the BJ auctions I watched a hemi cuda , that was checked by some expert to be the real deal but she was pulled out of the woods with my truck many years ago for a friend for 1800. he did a unreal job on it with another body and sold it for 50K new owner knowing what it was.Now years later it shows up at BJ as a documented 100% matching number with docs which it was but the body was changed.As you know a hemi is probally one of the hardest to do but not in the hands of someone who knows them.
I look at it two ways.We live in the rust belt so do we scrap a original documented numbers matching rare car or rebody it.Friend just finihed his 70 chevelle only thing original is the roof and the cowl what is she classed as today vs him installing the cowl in a rust free body.Not saying I agree with it but it is real world. I would like to see the guy that would cut up a 70 factory heni 4spd cuda with all docs just because the body it shot.

jimclemens 03-27-2007 06:21 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
HELLO EVERYONE...BACK AGAIN FOR A FEW WORDS. I HAVE READ A FEW POSTS, AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT BOTH SIDES ARE SAYING. I DEAL WITH THIS EVERY DAY. NOT JUST ONCE IN WHILE WHEN SOMEONE DECIDES TO MAKE A POST ON A WEBSITE. I DO APPRECIATE THE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT KNOW ME AND SUPPORT WHAT I AM DOING. BUILD SHEETS ARE A SMALL PSRT OF WHAT I DO. I OFFER MANY OTHER SERVICES AS WELL AS ORIGINAL LITERATURE AND ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION. WHEN ANY REPRODUCTION PART OR ITEM IS MADE, DO YOU SEE THE WORDS "REPRODUCTION" STAMPED ALL OVER IT? NOT USUALLY. IF IT WAS, PEOPLE WOULD NOT BUY IT. PEOPLE ARE JUST HAPPY TO GET THE STUFF. SOME GUYS ACTUALLY JUST WANT THE BUILD SHEET FOR A CAR THEY HAVE OWNED FOR 20 YEARS. NO EVERYYONE IS A CROOK. BELIEVE ME, THEY ARE THRILLED THEY CAN EVEN GET ONE. ALL THIS DISRUPTION AND CORRUPTION SEEMS TO BE THE PROBLEM. IT ALL FALLS ON THE BUYER AND SELLER. SELLERS SHOULD NOT MISREPRESENT THEIR CARS AND BUYERS SHOULD NOT BE BUYING THEM IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. BUYERS HAVE BEEN MISLED ON A CARS TRUE INDENTITY LONG BEFORE "REPO" BUILD SHEETS CAME ALONG. THANKS AGAIN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ. JIM

SuperNovaSS 03-27-2007 06:25 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
If you have enough other stuff to do the quit making fake buildsheets! Also, turn off the caps lock; you are not faking a buildsheet right now. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif


Jason

MYSTERYCHEVELLE 03-27-2007 07:01 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
I gues this is GUNS Don't Kill people, People Kill people logic.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Guys, I think we all realize, that no matter what we all say here, the guy is not going to stop doing what he does, too much money to be made and too thick headed. It just makes us all more AWARE of what we need to do do when buying cars.

MC

3macs1 03-27-2007 07:12 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
I have not seen his work that I know of but from what I heard and seen on this side it is the canadian guy that has to be shut down since the FL papers assuming it is the same guy are very easy to tell that they are not original. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif I have been told that time and time again.
I know based on the Pm's for his contact info in canada and they are not looking for a remake of an original.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

JoeG 03-27-2007 09:22 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
HELLO EVERYONE...BACK AGAIN FOR A FEW WORDS. I HAVE READ A FEW POSTS, AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT BOTH SIDES ARE SAYING. I DEAL WITH THIS EVERY DAY. NOT JUST ONCE IN WHILE WHEN SOMEONE DECIDES TO MAKE A POST ON A WEBSITE. I DO APPRECIATE THE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT KNOW ME AND SUPPORT WHAT I AM DOING. BUILD SHEETS ARE A SMALL PSRT OF WHAT I DO. I OFFER MANY OTHER SERVICES AS WELL AS ORIGINAL LITERATURE AND ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION. WHEN ANY REPRODUCTION PART OR ITEM IS MADE, DO YOU SEE THE WORDS "REPRODUCTION" STAMPED ALL OVER IT? NOT USUALLY. IF IT WAS, PEOPLE WOULD NOT BUY IT. PEOPLE ARE JUST HAPPY TO GET THE STUFF. SOME GUYS ACTUALLY JUST WANT THE BUILD SHEET FOR A CAR THEY HAVE OWNED FOR 20 YEARS. NO EVERYYONE IS A CROOK. BELIEVE ME, THEY ARE THRILLED THEY CAN EVEN GET ONE. ALL THIS DISRUPTION AND CORRUPTION SEEMS TO BE THE PROBLEM. IT ALL FALLS ON THE BUYER AND SELLER. SELLERS SHOULD NOT MISREPRESENT THEIR CARS AND BUYERS SHOULD NOT BE BUYING THEM IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. BUYERS HAVE BEEN MISLED ON A CARS TRUE INDENTITY LONG BEFORE "REPO" BUILD SHEETS CAME ALONG. THANKS AGAIN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ. JIM

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies who make trim parts, some exact to the "ORIGINAL" badges or emblems for cars put their own inventory number on the reproduced part not the GM id number. ---Just for the heck of it, if someone came across one of "YOUR" buildsheets maybe you could educate me on how they would be able to tell the difference from the "ORIGINAL" if ( for example) your"REPRO" buildsheet wasn't being presented as a reproduction.--Since this seems to be the wave of the future I'm just curious how I can avoid being taken for a ride..........

Rainer 03-27-2007 09:28 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
---Just for the heck of it, if someone came across one of your buildsheets maybe you could educate me on how they would be able to tell the difference from the "ORIGINAL" if ( for example) your"REPRO" buildsheet wasn't being presented as a reproduction.--Since this seems to be the wave of the future I'm just curious how I can avoid being taken for a ride..........

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent suggestion, Joe. Is the seller truly interested in minimizing the fraud that can result from the use of these build sheets, or is the attitude, "Its out of my hands." https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

How about this Jim - are you willing to offer a service that, for a nominal fee, you'll inspect a build sheet for a prospective buyer and verify whether its your handywork or not? This shouldn't affect the sale of your sheets for legit reasons one bit. And this wouldn't require you to reveal the tell-tale signs that differentiate your sheets from originals. Well?

COPO427 03-27-2007 10:38 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
HELLO EVERYONE...BACK AGAIN FOR A FEW WORDS. I HAVE READ A FEW POSTS, AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT BOTH SIDES ARE SAYING. I DEAL WITH THIS EVERY DAY. NOT JUST ONCE IN WHILE WHEN SOMEONE DECIDES TO MAKE A POST ON A WEBSITE. I DO APPRECIATE THE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT KNOW ME AND SUPPORT WHAT I AM DOING. BUILD SHEETS ARE A SMALL PSRT OF WHAT I DO. I OFFER MANY OTHER SERVICES AS WELL AS ORIGINAL LITERATURE AND ORIGINAL DOCUMENTATION. WHEN ANY REPRODUCTION PART OR ITEM IS MADE, DO YOU SEE THE WORDS "REPRODUCTION" STAMPED ALL OVER IT? NOT USUALLY. IF IT WAS, PEOPLE WOULD NOT BUY IT. PEOPLE ARE JUST HAPPY TO GET THE STUFF. SOME GUYS ACTUALLY JUST WANT THE BUILD SHEET FOR A CAR THEY HAVE OWNED FOR 20 YEARS. NO EVERYYONE IS A CROOK. BELIEVE ME, THEY ARE THRILLED THEY CAN EVEN GET ONE. ALL THIS DISRUPTION AND CORRUPTION SEEMS TO BE THE PROBLEM. IT ALL FALLS ON THE BUYER AND SELLER. SELLERS SHOULD NOT MISREPRESENT THEIR CARS AND BUYERS SHOULD NOT BE BUYING THEM IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. BUYERS HAVE BEEN MISLED ON A CARS TRUE INDENTITY LONG BEFORE "REPO" BUILD SHEETS CAME ALONG. THANKS AGAIN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ. JIM

[/ QUOTE ]


No CAPS please. My eyes hurt now. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

COPO427 03-27-2007 10:48 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just for the heck of it, if someone came across one of "YOUR" buildsheets maybe you could educate me on how they would be able to tell the difference from the "ORIGINAL" if ( for example) your"REPRO" buildsheet wasn't being presented as a reproduction.--Since this seems to be the wave of the future I'm just curious how I can avoid being taken for a ride

[/ QUOTE ]

If he tells everyone then all the fake cars won't get the high dollar figure. It'll put the cloners out of business even though some clones bring in a good buck. Clones should be sold as clones and people should be locked up when caught selling clones. My .02

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbi...8/CB017519.jpg

ORIGLS6 03-28-2007 12:42 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
OK, my $.02 on this. I'm a graphic artist by profession. A few years ago I actually started creating the "Correct" typeface to use on reproduction window stickers and VIN decals on the drivers door. That same font could also be used on Build Sheets. It's not really all that difficult; it just takes tons of time. Bill Pritchard and a few other guys from Team Chevelle may recall my discussions on the Chevelle site at that time. A couple of things happened before I finished the project. First, my personal life took a turn. (Long, boring story.) The second thing was, I started thinking of the eventual consequences of this project. For whatever reason, I dumped the idea and I'm more comfortable about that decision everyday. Someone else may eventually tackle and complete this, but the burden of deceit will be on their shoulders; not mine.

For what it's worth, I also had reproduction window stickers for 1968, 69 & 70 that, in my opinion, are more correct than any of the others I've seen offered to date. And yes, I used originals for my example......... ones that I know are authentic because they came from my cars. Maybe someday I WILL have those made available but for now we'll just sit back and see how the 'Hobby Police' handle these situations.

LVCamaro 03-28-2007 01:33 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
good for you, Dennis. fake paper sucks! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

SS

x Baldwin Motion 03-28-2007 02:38 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
THEY ARE MADE TO COMPLEMENT A RESTORATION, JUST AS ANY OTHER REPRODUCTION PART, ........... PLEASE BE WELL INFORMED ON WHAT YOU SAY BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN WRITING........... . JIM CLEMENS - ROCKLEDGE, FL.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'll guess he was yelling, that's why the caps lock is on.

I may be old and forgetful but for all the car shows I've been to in my day I've never seen the build sheet as part of a fancy display, maybe tucked away in a binder to show a prospective seller.

To imply that a fake build sheet is part of a restoration (like a pair of dyed seat belts) IS BULL https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif
IT IS USED FOR ONE PRIMARY REASON AND THAT IS TO AUTHENTICATE A VEHICLE. THAT'S MY OPINION. AND I DON'T NEED TO "WELL INFORMED" BY ANYONE'S STANDARDS TO HAVE MY SAY.

You may be a well repected businessman according to some folks, but fake build sheets are counterfeit documents if they are not marked "for display" or the like.
JMHHO https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

elcamino72 03-28-2007 02:42 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
[ QUOTE ]
good for you, Dennis. fake paper sucks! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

SS

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments exactly! Fake paper misleads even well informed buyers of vehicles and this is plain wrong!

If you wish to continue making these "reproduction" buildsheets, might I suggest as Mike has, please put "reproduction" on them because just because you made it for someone else could be seen as you helping to perpetrate a fraud/misrepresentation, in law its called constructive notice!

Verne_Frantz 03-28-2007 03:16 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Congratulations Dennis for taking the high road. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
Verne

Verne_Frantz 03-28-2007 03:35 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
Chris, I couldn't agree with you more! Fake paperwork is exactly the same thing as fake cowl tags! (or are the repro cowl tags just "for display purposes only"?)
If he's smart enough to create them, then he's smart enough to know he's selling them to people to commit fraud. Now, I'm no lawyer, but if one sells something that is used to commit fraud, I wonder how a court would view that seller when the poop hits the propeller over a fraudlent sale involving many dollars?
Long ago, when repro cowl tags first showed up on the scene, many people simply viewed them as a "restoration part". Now, we're supposed to believe the smoke and mirrors that original appearing documents are also just another part of a restoration????? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!

Those papers are the birth certificates of the cars we love. They may have survived, or they may not have. Either way, we only have what we have. Recreating new ones to our desire is unethical, and should be illegal.
A person may have been born with with a given name that he doesn't appreciate, so he changes his birth certificate to read Richard Wadsworth, when in reality he was still born a Dick Wad.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gifVerne

joey 03-28-2007 05:45 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
I dont agree or disagree with any of you on this subject but if you change a tire, paint, emblem ,carpet or oil filter etc then your car is no longer all original it is however as original same goes for a build sheet say I have a true ls6 and I wanted a build sheet and I had a correct one made there is no difference it is not original but as original in any of the above to me but if I took a x 11 and put a 302 in it and had a z 28 cowl tag made then it would be a like original z28 or clone as most call it I personally would never do this but I know that people do and im not hammering on them my dad all ways told me buyer beware and know what your buying and if I had to rely on a piece of paper to tell me then Im not to smart and I do admire you folks that have the original paperwork by the way but that will never make the deal with me buying your car it will have to do that itself .I am truly a car guy and I buy cars because I like them I have never asked is this car documented before I buy but I do drive em first sorry if my spelling and punctuation is bad but Im just a ordinary joe who happens to own 12 classic cars one for each month of the year and every now and then I will buy one or two and sell em just for the thrill and by the way I have never seen a person stand up at one of my auctions or barrett jacksons and say is this car documented most true buyers are like me if we want it and the price is fair we buy it

JoeG 03-28-2007 05:49 AM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
A person may have been born with with a given name that he doesn't appreciate, so he changes his birth certificate to read Richard Wadsworth, when in reality he was still born a Dick Wad.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif----Where the hell do you get this stuff.........No more Coke-a-Cola for you... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gifVerne

[/ QUOTE ]

Kurt S 03-28-2007 08:25 PM

Re: chevelle build sheets
 
There's a big difference between a reproduction part required for the function of the vehicle and a piece of paper that is used to authenticate a vehicle.


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