Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

I don't have a 427 Camaro/Chevelle but would a 1969 427/435HP L71 Corvette be considered a SUPERCAR? Is a 396/375HP L78 Camaro SS a SUPERCAR?

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

I don't think it really matters. That is like asking if a car is a muscle car. If you like it, enjoy it. To answer the question, I think most here consider supercars to be dealer built or factory special built to qualify for racing.


Jason

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

For this site..we define it simply

[ QUOTE ]
Dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer
built Supercars and COPO cars.



[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

it is a very loaded question actually. as belair62 stated by the website description its dedicated to the CHEVROLET dealer built supercar and COPO cars. however, a 69 Hurst SC/rambler is a dealer built racecar specifically designed to compete in F Stock dragracing. and the SC in SC/rambler stands for Super Car. i am to young to know when exactly the term Super Car was placed on dealer installed and factory prepared automobiles, but i would be just plain lying to you if i said this was only a Chevy thing.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

I think that if you talk about the L89, L88 and ZL1 Corvettes, yes. I'd include the '71 LS6 in this group, also. You've got aluminum heads, solid lifter and tri-power in the case of the L89. These are racing cars with high dollar options that were in extremely low production when available. If you've ever driven a well tuned L89 Corvette, you'd classify it as a Supercar. I mean no disrespect for an L78, L72 or L71 Corvette, but these were certainly more mainstream Corvettes with a fair number made.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it is a very loaded question actually. as belair62 stated by the website description its dedicated to the CHEVROLET dealer built supercar and COPO cars. however, a 69 Hurst SC/rambler is a dealer built racecar specifically designed to compete in F Stock dragracing. and the SC in SC/rambler stands for Super Car. i am to young to know when exactly the term Super Car was placed on dealer installed and factory prepared automobiles, but i would be just plain lying to you if i said this was only a Chevy thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one said Supercar were "only a Chevy thing". However this sites original intent was: Dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer
built Supercars and COPO cars.

All featured Supercars are Chevrolets https://www.yenko.net/features/featurecars.htm

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

The definition of a "Supercar". I see them as factory or dealer prepped high horsepower, low production muscle cars. Produced by many manufacturers. Not just Chevrolet.

That defintion differs from the Yenko/Copo Supercars focused on this site. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Patrick

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Like most things, why get caught up in rigid "rules". Although this site started as a chevrolet COPO and Dealer Site (at least when I started coming here) that was mostly camaro's and chevelles, it has become so much more. I remember when Deuce's became all the rage. Then came the discussions about the Deuce being a "supercar", but only a 350 car. That went on for a while. Finally, my 70 Z28 COPO was discussed. It is a COPO, but the COPO option was a spoiler package. How would that compare to a non "supercar" L78?

I say let's just enjoy em for what they are, and a 427 vette sure is a "super" car if it's not a "supercar".
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Rich

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Not so. The Deuce has been here since the beginning! The same discussions about the Deuce w/ it's Z28 drivetrain was just another rehash about the '69 Camaro with it's Impala L72 drivetrain.... If it's got a performance COPO #, or a dealer transplant/supertune - it's in! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Heck, the stingers, vegas, & turbo Z's are 'SuperCars' https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not so. The Deuce has been here since the beginning! The same discussions about the Deuce w/ it's Z28 drivetrain was just another rehash about the '69 Camaro with it's Impala L72 drivetrain.... If it's got a performance COPO #, or a dealer transplant/supertune - it's in! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif Heck, the stingers, vegas, & turbo Z's are 'SuperCars' https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How about big spoiler cars https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Does they improve your ET on the 1320'? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

It does only if it has a certified LM1. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

The 1970 L78 Camaro is rarer than a 1969 427 COPO Camaro, why is that not in the SUPERcar category.
The L78 has square ports, 11 to 1's, solid cam, 4 bolt main,forged pistons, dimple rods,780 holley,etc same as the COPO, it is a race car same as COPO. The L72/L71/L78 Corvettes are race cars also, basically with same motors. Now the L88/ZL1 these are truely special race engines in a higher category. I think that if you call a L72 COPO Camaro a supercar then a L72 Vette is also one.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It does only if it has a certified LM1. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Now Dr. Seuss, why do I fee like this is the Star-Belly Sneetches discussion?

I know what I've got and I am happy with it. Which was my point. Who would'nt be happy with that vette this thread is about?

Finally, I'll never understand how a Deuce with a LT1 (which was the exact same engine in my 70 Z) is considered a "supercar" and a L78 is not. If the criteria is ET times, than how is the L78 "just" a camaro and the 1980ish Yenko "turbo"Z a "supercar"?

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

LOL......just having fun.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does they improve your ET on the 1320'? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And some stickers that say "Deuce" do? And as far as the COPO Z's, yes, it is a proven fact that there was a peformance increase in Trans Am racing.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Damn, Guess I was too thin skinned. Should have used a https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif.

Cmon, admit it charley, you're jealous because you don't HAVE a LM1 in your collection! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

And, that was a joke! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Let me pull a plug wire and I can get the same feeling without having to buy a car.....LOL

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

OK, I know I'll regret this but let's give it a try anyway.

The L-78 Camaro you reference, although a rare animal for 1970, was in fact available to the general public through ANY Chevy Dealer, just like the 435 HP Corvette. The LT-1 Nova (aka Deuce) was NOT an RPO code for the Nova in 1970. It was a specially built car made possible through the COPO process. General consensus here (the Supercar Registry/ sYc) is that RPO optioned cars DO NOT fall into the 'SUPERCAR' category as defined by this site.

Another example: In 1968 an automatic transmission WAS NOT available to the general public behind the L-78 in a Nova. Fifty of those cars were built; COPO 9738. In 1969 it was available to the general public so the M-40 equipped L-78 Novas in '69 & '70 are not considered SUPERCARS.

Confusing? It really has nothing to do with huge horsepower, or whether it's a BBC or SBC. It's more about Factory/Dealer built specialty cars here.

On other sites you'll find other SUPERCARS, such as Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, etc. It just depends on where you are.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Well said Cumby, and right on. The only thing I would add is that the COPO order in question needed to be some sort of performance oriented change or upgrade, not to build a taxi cab or work truck. To answer the original question quite simply.... no.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To answer the original question quite simply.... no.

[/ QUOTE ]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif Now why didn't I think of that! Ask me for the time and I'll tell you how to build a watch! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I know I'll regret this but let's give it a try anyway.

The L-78 Camaro you reference, although a rare animal for 1970, was in fact available to the general public through ANY Chevy Dealer, just like the 435 HP Corvette. The LT-1 Nova (aka Deuce) was NOT an RPO code for the Nova in 1970. It was a specially built car made possible through the COPO process. General consensus here (the Supercar Registry/ sYc) is that RPO optioned cars DO NOT fall into the 'SUPERCAR' category as defined by this site.

Another example: In 1968 an automatic transmission WAS NOT available to the general public behind the L-78 in a Nova. Fifty of those cars were built; COPO 9738. In 1969 it was available to the general public so the M-40 equipped L-78 Novas in '69 & '70 are not considered SUPERCARS.

Confusing? It really has nothing to do with huge horsepower, or whether it's a BBC or SBC. It's more about Factory/Dealer built specialty cars here.

On other sites you'll find other SUPERCARS, such as Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, etc. It just depends on where you are.

[/ QUOTE ]


OK, then how about the 70 Z28 COPO? It was tied closely to trans am racing? It was not available generally, and less than 500 were made?

Do I get a star on my belly? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

No...but you are getting a red bullseye and we are going to use Tabasco coated pellets

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

What is an LM1?

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

http://www.69lm1.com

Basically, the 69 version of the 1967-68 L30/M20, but with less HP (255hp) but with many high performace options. They came with 12 bolt multi rear's and the base transmission was a muncie instead of the saginaw. Like the L30/M20, they had no external badging. Just a cool (In Charlie and I's opinion https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif ) sleeper smallblock type car. Many are poverty cap cars, which make them look like.........

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No...but you are getting a red bullseye and we are going to use Tabasco coated pellets

[/ QUOTE ]

N'awlins remember? Tobasco is good on anything! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I know I'll regret this but let's give it a try anyway.

The L-78 Camaro you reference, although a rare animal for 1970, was in fact available to the general public through ANY Chevy Dealer, just like the 435 HP Corvette. The LT-1 Nova (aka Deuce) was NOT an RPO code for the Nova in 1970. It was a specially built car made possible through the COPO process. General consensus here (the Supercar Registry/ sYc) is that RPO optioned cars DO NOT fall into the 'SUPERCAR' category as defined by this site.

Another example: In 1968 an automatic transmission WAS NOT available to the general public behind the L-78 in a Nova. Fifty of those cars were built; COPO 9738. In 1969 it was available to the general public so the M-40 equipped L-78 Novas in '69 & '70 are not considered SUPERCARS.

Confusing? It really has nothing to do with huge horsepower, or whether it's a BBC or SBC. It's more about Factory/Dealer built specialty cars here.

On other sites you'll find other SUPERCARS, such as Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, etc. It just depends on where you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

O.K ..so if it's agreed that any RPO cars are excluded semantically from Supercar reverence,do the GMMG C5R race case cars qualify? They were only available through a limited dealer network-just like Bill Thomas/Dana/Nickey/Yenko,and were even emissions legal.Before you call them tuner cars,remember they share the same GM motorsports blocks which are in the ALMS Vettes that have won over 40 races from Lemans to Sebring to Daytona-pretty much mirroring what the L88's accomplished nearly forty years earlier.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Another thing to consider.......is if the Car has a "Caution Fan Sticker".......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/ooo.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

A supercar does not have to be a COPO ordered car if it is dealer modified...Ala Baldwin-Motion. Most if not all Motion cars were RPO ordered cars from GM, but were heavily modified from there, similar to the newer cars you're talking about. If an RPO ordered 435hp Corvette (the car mentioned in the original question) was modified at Motion, Yenko, etc. then it WOULD be considered a Supercar, even though it was not a COPO. This topic is as simple to some/difficult to others as the "what is a rebody" thread. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Is a 1963 Z-11 a Super Car?

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

so a police car built by chevrolet is a RPO and not a supercar? what if said police car came with hi-po parts and special suspension?

who needs some popcorn....or a gun! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

A police car is a police car. RPO, COPO, COP Co., whatever... if its black and white with 4 door handles it ain't a supercar. Gimme that gun. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

and one last thing.. is the Pete Estes built 68 Z28 vert considered a SuperCar?

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

That's a good question... personally, I just think it's a specially made convertible Z, and am glad they only built 1. I'll run for cover now with my popcorn and my gun... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

I admitedly don't know much about how the '63 Z11's were built/ordered, but I'm guessing they'd fall into the category of Supercar pretty easily but I'm not sure...was the Z11 option an RPO? I guess if it was, they're not "Supercars" by definition, but are bad ass either way. The same can be said for many cars of the era.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing to consider.......is if the Car has a "Caution Fan Sticker".......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/ooo.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a darn minute here....I want equal time for the up side down cowl induction seal too ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif
Mike A

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

Z11 was an RPO...those were in the days of the FACTORY wars...as was Super Duty and Max Wedge stuff...the dawning of an era that made COPO cars possible.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

My head hurts... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

I'm sorry but c'mon, the Z-11 Impala is definitely a Supercar. Easily one of the most "Supercars" the General ever sent out the door. It was so wicked, GM themselves banned them after mid-year it was so wild. Aluminum nose, 13:1 compression, practically had a tunnel ram on top of the motor. Let's not even mention that beautiful air cleaner. I've gotta lot of respect for LT-1's but I would line up a '63 Z-11 against a Deuce Nova any day of the week.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've gotta lot of respect for LT-1's but I would line up a '63 Z-11 against a Deuce Nova any day of the week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again... nothing to do with what a supercar is or isn't. The 435hp vette in the original question would beat a deuce too, but it's still not a supercar by definition. Sorry.

Re: Would a 435HP vette be considered a SUPERCAR?
 

The original credo of this site was:
Dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer built Supercars and COPO cars.

Now that statement was intended to be the focus for THIS site. We are all in agreement that a supercar is many things to many people and there are other site that focus on Supercars outside this sites definition.

You will also note that this site has morphed into a site that discusses many other brand cars and the home index page reflects this with the addition of members rides and other muscle. I think being a focused site rather than a more general has enabled us to uncover the many unknown facts and mysteries of how these cars were conceived, built and distributed.

If someone want to start a forum for factory lightweights, make a request to the moderators to add one to the index. To me no cars have been excluded, however, I for one would like the sites credo to stay as is.

The members of this site offer a wealth of information to all enthusiasts and it is appreciated by all.