Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

I'm looking for any info, the history of, previous owners, original dealership etc. for a 1972 Motion Phase III Camaro that was outside the Raleigh NC area in the early 1980's. The car was blue with white Z-28/motion strips. It had a 4 pin lift off hood. vin#1Q87L2N165003.
Thanks,
Scott

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

My brother Scott posted the above question several months ago. Today we were discussing attending SCR 11 and bringing along this 1972 Camaro. http://kh2pm.dynip.com/motion/
A quick introduction..I have been into musclecars since the late 70's. My first car was a 1970 1/2 Camaro Z28, which I bought (beat and barely running) in 1982. Scott has a 1970 Olds 442 W-30 which he bought in the mid 80's and has fully restored with the help of our Dad who painted the 442.
We are trying to get as much info as we can on the Camaro prior to starting the restoration. If you notice in the pictures, the last time it was registered was in 1984. Scott and I actually looked at this Camaro in 1984/85 in the Raleigh area for sale. Here are the notes I wrote down during that visit and subsequently stashed away for 23 years. http://kh2pm.dynip.com/motion/2007-29oct-026.JPG
When going through some of my old stuff in the attic at my Dad's house several years ago I found that piece of paper and gave it to Scott. He actually tracked down the Camaro again and bought it in October 2007 in Eastern NC in it's present condition, minus the BBC which had MOTION valve covers and "bug-eye" air cleaner when we looked at it years ago.
I'm hoping that these pictures will generate some interesting, productive discussions. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif Searching the internet I have found very little information on Baldwin-Motion musclecars. This forum seems to have a wealth of knowledgeable enthusiasts! Hopefully one of you guys currently have, or have owned a similar Camaro and can help with info on the restoration.

Chris McKendry
Holly Springs NC

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

Good luck with your car. The best thing you can try to do is get an NCIB report which traces the cars insurance history & will hopefully bring you to the dealership it was originally purchased from.The only thing i question is why would the car have stock exhaust manifolds over headers.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

Is the NICB still doing these reports?

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

I think it's all got to do with who you know.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

I for one would like to see it at the reunion so thanks for considering.. Is the paint believed to be the original Motion paint??

Very cool car regardless of if its a Motion car or not.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is the NICB still doing these reports?

[/ QUOTE ] NOPE ... and very hard to get. Doug https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

Thanks for the replies fellas.

When Scott and I test drove it back in '84/85 (can't recall but around that timeframe) it had a BBC with headers, MOTION valve covers, round MOROSO 'bug-eye' air filter, etc.
Back then we were not so aware of the potential and history a legit MOTION car would have these days! Even back in '84 it was pretty beat up but had not been painted over. Originally it was blue with white stripes. In the pictures you can see the blue paint in several places. We removed the trunk spoiler but I did not get any pics. I'm planning on taking some more pictures tomorrow of such things as the leaf spring brackets, traction bars, aftermarket high flow fuel pump up in the rear axle tunnel (and the model if we can read it). Also note there are holes in the rocker panels where side pipes may have once been located.

The manifolds are a mystery to us as well. Scott bought the car pretty much as is missing the engine but a TH400 did come with it. When I drove it back in '84 it had an automatic and the shifter was a HURST V-Matic ratchet style shifter. I am still amazed the last NC registration expired in 1985.

I will try and get pictures of all the tell-tale items and paint and stripe details tomorrow. If any of you here have any requests please post here and I'll try and get pics.

Now if only we could find a build sheet or something. So far we've checked the seat bottoms, behind the back seats, and peered into the deteriorating headliner. Maybe one will turn up under the carpet.

We were wondering how and why SBC manifolds were there as well.
Apparently the next owner damaged the BBC, removed it and replaced it with a Small Block. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

As for that, please PM info! That would be a huge accomplishment short of having Joel Rosen himself verify it.

Now we're checking into how much gas it will cost to trailer it up to SCR, work schedule permitting.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

Here's more regarding the SBC manifolds..
Thanks Scott!

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

So the car had the original GM Z/28 paint scheme back then? Then at some point someone painted the black/grey?

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

[ QUOTE ]
So the car had the original GM Z/28 paint scheme back then? Then at some point someone painted the black/grey?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/10-29-...-camaro011.JPG

I thought this was a light coat of primer over the blue/white ?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

Ah, I see.. Well then my next question is this. Isn't the striping scheme a little off from the typical Motion striping?

https://www.yenko.net/photos/data/508...MotionP4_2.jpg

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in NC
 

NICB is still doing reports, had a very ballsy contact call NICB direct with my VINS about 2 months ago and they gave him the dealers and date delivered on both of my cars

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

When we looked at it back in 1984, the paint was blue with white stripes and the white continued down the rear fenders and to a point on the side. Just like in the current pictures. Somebody painted over the blue with brown primer and repainted it with a black or dark grey metalflake paint and copied over the stripes with dark silver metalic. I have been told that the MOTION stripes were not based on a stencil. They were taped up by hand, therefore no two cars will have the exact same stripe layout. The black and white picture above is basically exactly like this one is painted. The angle that one views the car makes the curve down the rear fender look different I guess.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I think this may be the odd striping that Darren was referring to:



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http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...-camaro003.jpg
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Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I have seen many motion cars & articles showing the paint scheme & some look thicker than others & some taper longer than others.yes they were done by hand so no 2 cars were probably exact.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen many motion cars & articles showing the paint scheme & some look thicker than others & some taper longer than others.yes they were done by hand so no 2 cars were probably exact.

[/ QUOTE ]



I agree with that, but I can't recall ever seeing a Motion car with the side stripe and a rear stripe like this.
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http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...amaro003-2.jpg
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Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I have seen two or three variations of stripe designs while browsing images on the 'net. From what I can tell, if there is one large single stripe on the hood, and (sometimes) one down the roof centerline of equal width, then onto the trunk where it is spread out onto the fenders and then forward to a point along the side.
If there are twin stripes (ALA Z-28) then the variation is what we have on Scott's Camaro. The trunk stripe is split because it started out as a twin-stripe Z-28 but the sides are the same, to a point behind the front wheelwell. I have also seen a third design on the L88 hood but have not seen any detailed pics of how the trunk striping is finished as of yet.

Right now I'm searching for another Camaro on the 'net with the same paint on the trunk as Scotts....

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
........... If there are twin stripes (ALA Z-28) then the variation is what we have on Scott's Camaro. The trunk stripe is split because it started out as a twin-stripe Z-28 but the sides are the same, to a point behind the front wheelwell....

[/ QUOTE ]

that makes good sense and might ring a rusty bell

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...striperear.jpg

are all the MOTiON emblems riveted on?

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/...maro/index.htm

There it is. Found one. Twin Z-28 stripes on hood and onto trunk.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

Here is Scott's trunk, from a better angle.

http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro029.jpg

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

Close up of the left traction bar. Anybody recognize the style? Lakewood maybe? http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro010.jpg

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

MOTION emblem. Apparently when the car was repainted the pins on the back were broken off so some idiot drilled 'em and used screws to reinstall. http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro001.jpg

http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro002.jpg

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I don't ever recall seeing MOTION emblems with pins...are those perhaps casting gates?
I had a friend who didn't want to use tape to hold the emblems on so he ran two screws in the emblem...one through the center of each "O".

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

Electric AC fuel pump..

http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro017.jpg

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

There are holes under the rocker panels under the doors, most likely for side pipes. Here is a pic of the remnants from a welded on bracket. I'll get a better picture later. It's kinda hard to get under the car when it's parked in an enclosed trailer!

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

This was originally a Z-28. The OEM upper swaybar brackets are still in place on the frame, but now being used as an exhaust hangar. http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro013.jpg

...and a pic of me in 1982 with my '70 1/2 Z-28...

http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/70z28chris1982.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

My rusty bell is still not ringing - but you sure can't argue with a car from Kevin Suydam's personal collection!

That bar doesn't look like the Lakewood bars I'm familiar with - double snubber?

This is an early Lakewood bar -

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/apr08032.jpg
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[image]

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
My rusty bell is still not ringing - but you sure can't argue with a car from Kevin Suydam's personal collection!

That bar doesn't look like the Lakewood bars I'm familiar with - double snubber?

This is an early Lakewood bar -

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/apr08032.jpg
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[image]

[/ QUOTE ]

I never saw a real Lakewood bar that didn'd attach to the bottom of the spring, replacing the original shock plate/spring retainer, not clamped to the spring. The bar in this picture looks to be a late model cheapie wanna be traction bar..... maybe a Blackjack or the like.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

? That late model cheapie wanna be came out of a Lakewood box over 30 years ago.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

30 years ago (1978) is late model to me. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

The stripes are accurate to stripes that would have continued off a standard Z stripes.The emblems look real & those were not pins there like casting set pins for the mold.The emblems should have just been applied with 2 sided tape,but whoever re-painted the car just put them on the way he felt would hold them on the best.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

Thanks Jeff owners2 for that information.

Is it common for MOTION emblems to have been modified in this
way over the years? Scott was thinking about filling in the holes that were drilled in the emblem and finishing them with black paint, and using two-sided tape to hold them on. If it's common and 'acceptable' for screws to be holding them on the car he'll have an option.

One other thing that I recall, and that Scott also has more detail in his recollection is a badge on the dash on the passenger side. I was thinking it was either a PHASE III or MOTION emblem affixed to the dash, but Scott thinks it was a plastic engraved MOTION or PHASE III badge. There is a spot on the dash now that does have the outline that something was there. Anybody have any pics or info on that?

Thanks again for all the input!

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I can't recall if we talked about this.. Did you consider contacting Joel to verify the car?

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

You should try & gather as much info as you can on the car & then pay Joel his fee & present him with all you have.Your on the right track,just keep plugging away @ people to see if anyone re-calls the car.Start with going to local hang outs & shops in the area you found the car at.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I would get some liquid metal or some JB weld and chamfer the hole on the front and back so there is a larger nub on bothsidea and then sand it and paint... they will look fine... NOS ones would be $$$!

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
Close up of the left traction bar. Anybody recognize the style? Lakewood maybe? http://n5cwm.dynip.com/motion/07-22-...-camaro010.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Ansen used to make bars like that, I think Scuncio even put them on some of their cars. I am not 100% sure those are Ansen bars though.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

I was talking with Dave Miller the other day and he said they were Kool-Fuel bars. I also remember seeing some pictures of them in old mags and I think that's what they are. Here's an old Kool-Fuel decal I have had for a few years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/koolfuel.jpg

Tommy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't recall if we talked about this.. Did you consider contacting Joel to verify the car?

[/ QUOTE ]

Scott has been contemplating doing just that. It's a big
'investment' that could go either way. If Joel does give him info verifying it's authenticity, then the value will go up quite a bit. Yet if he says it's not one of his cars, then Scott has said he will pursue creating a MOTION 'tribute' which would be more fun at shows since not many MOTION cars exist. And he has the option of restoring it to it's original Z-28 status.

I am curious as to what kind of info Joel Rosen provides. Has be been known to personally verify a car or does he have a list of VINs that he references? Scott and I were talking about that the other day. There must be something on the original MOTION cars that only his shop did that would verify its originality. Not that I'm asking for any 'secrets'..it's just a curiosity of ours.

I'm pretty sure Scott is going to send Joel a check but he's hesitant because he's not sure what he'll get in return besides a letter from Joel himself saying yay or nay.

Re: Information/history of a 72 Motion Camaro in N
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would get some liquid metal or some JB weld and chamfer the hole on the front and back so there is a larger nub on both sides and then sand it and paint... they will look fine... NOS ones would be $$$!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what Scott has been planning on doing. I would think that clear RTV would be one way to bond them to the car when re-installing them. Two-sided tape would not be my choice. Water and dirt tend to loosen it with time. I have used RTV in the past and found it very tough to remove. Plus there needs to be a way to bond them firm so they don't get stolen while it's at a show for instance. As valuable as they are you never know.