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69 camaro running in the 10s
well its winter time and im working on my camaro project,im going to be doing mostly racing ,ive got like 3 major questions i bought one of those new gm zl1 blocks,what would be the best rotating asy 454 or 427 , the best all around cam and what kind of traction control on the rear end ,its a stock 12 bolt rear end with the stock springs and its a 4 sp ,i really want a super reliable car i can enjoy racing and kicking but on the compatition,thanks so much for the help and happy new year kris...
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Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
I have built a couple of those..one 427 and one 454..now building a third..489..the 454 was a bear..the 427 while a good motor just did not have the "punch" I was looking for..hope tp remedy that problem with the 489..traction will be an issue..good tires and a good traction bar/aid will help..cam chioces are endless..transmissions..for racing a good auto..for street playing def a 4 speed or more!!
ALbert |
Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
I would basically set the car up as a Stock Eliminator car. Go on the Stock Eliminator Site and you can see what they have. They run 9" tires and use a 12 bolt rear. L78 motors run real well also. Get a hold of Rob Clary. He will dial you in on the motor and camshaft! He's fast! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif
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Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
I don't think that a person could make a true NHRA Stock Eliminator very streetable. That camshaft may measure stock lift, etc, but it's VERY aggressive and hard on valvetrain parts. I also don't think the rings would live very long either when it comes to street driving. As far as the transmission goes, a TH400 would require an 8-inch 5500 RPM convertor and a stick car would require a very expensive Jerico 4-speed and a very expensive, "trick" clutch also. It's a neat idea, but a true NHRA Stocker is actually VERY far away from being "street-friendly". Now I do like the idea of buying a nice Eagle Reciprocating Assembly with a 4.25 stroke. This will give you a 482CID (standard bore of 4.25) or a 489CID (.030 for a 4.280 bore). That's internal stuff and nobody will know that it's not really a 427 unless you tell them! An extra 59 cubic inches.......wrap 'em up.....I'll take 'em! I'd slide in one of my personal favorite Comp Cams 288 Street Solid Rollers (very street-able!), find a set of #077 GM aluminum heads (NOT #074's), a GM factory aluminum high-rise intake for a great performing, yet factory-looking appearance, 850 double-pumper, and a set of 2-inch #2457 Hooker headers and this motor will make 600-620 easily on pump gas and live forever.
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Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
I agree with Mark. Just to give you a better idea of what it takes to make a Stocker work (and at least be competitive), here’s a tiny bit insight into my B/Stick Firehawk….ten years or so ago:
When it came to the rear end, I used a custom cast 12 bolt center section from KTRE. I had it narrowed as much as I thought could get away with (so that I could use wheels with the smallest backspace, since they’re the lightest. The axle tubes were 4130 (lighter than mild steel). I had Mark Williams rifle drill the axles as much as he dared, then he heavily (and I mean Heavily) scalloped the flanges. The spool was similarly scalloped. Williams back cut the ring gear to save weight. The wheels were the lightest Monocoque could build. The Firebird body was stripped to the bone. It was, uhm, “detailed” with a die grinder, a cut off wheel and a holesaw where it wasn’t visible. MPR sectioned (yes, sectioned) the control arms to narrow the track width. In those days, stock brakes were mandatory. Soooo…out back, I used aluminum drums with no parking brake bits whatsoever inside. On the nose, I machined the rotors to minimum and like everyone else at the time, cut the pads to half thickness which, along with “tweaked” stock calipers (that took four trips to the machine shop to lighten) was necessary to fit everything inside a 15X3.5-inch Monocoque front wheel. Alf Weibe fit a Pinto rack and pinion to the front. Some of my racing pals teased me about the “Pontiac Volare” master cylinder I used too (one of Roger Lamb’s $450 modified Mopar jobs). NHRA declared my round tube rod end equipped trailing arms illegal, so I had Alf make up a set that had looked more stock, but had spherical bearings hidden in the respective ends. Alf also revised the front a-arms to accept spherical bearings where bushings went. The front ride height was totally adjustable (it was actually possible to drop the car so low that the front k-member hit the ground). I also had a set of triple adjustable Penske shocks made up for the car, but they were never installed. The LT1 heads went to Dave Layer for, uhm, a valve job. The pistons were custom legal jobs from Lunati. Lunati “indexed” the crank (stroked it +.013-inch). I sent a stock oil pan to Ollie Volpe (who was at Moroso at the time). He fit it with a custom scraper/windage screen, but left the outside looking stock. I could go on, but let’s just say the work inside the engine was extensive. To make a long story short, Tim Bishop set the B/Stick record with that car. It’s “legal” and today, I’ll bet maybe even a bit outdated. These cars are so sophisticated; they can easily compete in Super Stock. And they consume copious quantities of cash. To make ‘em run really hard (as in setting a record or racing another identically classed car heads up), you have to put them on “kill”. That eats parts like mad (big block guys have to have a rocker arm concession). I can go on forever on this topic, but stock isn’t stock. Most racers will tell you that’s why they put spaces between the lines in the NHRA Rulebook. And to answer part of the original question, to go fast, just plug in the biggest possible engine. Then figure out how to make it hook. David Reher (Reher-Morrison) gave me that tiny piece of advice years (decades) ago and it still makes sense today. Best of luck… Wayne Scraba |
Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
GREAT info Wayne and Mark!
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Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
One thing I forgot was this itsy-bitsy piece of trivia. When I worked for National DRAGSTER, I was off to Indy for the US Nats. I spent a lot of time in the sportsman pits (hey – these guys read my column…I doubt any of the Top Fuel or flopper folks cared….<g>). One of the Super Stock guys I knew was really in deep trouble with his car. It wouldn’t build oil pressure. Guess why not? At the time (late nineties), it was the in thing to remove every second tooth off the oil pump in an effort to reduce internal friction. Apparently, it worked reasonably well if you were careful with oil choice. But this racer also used the latest and greatest 0-wt oil (yes, it does exist….it resembles water in consistency). Coupled together, the small block just couldn’t build PSI. Now, to be fair it was afterall, INDY!. The car was running in class eliminations. The racer needed everything he could throw at it. The problem eventually was resolved by switching to a “heavy oil” (likely 10W or something in that range). It just goes to show how over the top little guy racing has become.
Cheers! Wayne Scraba https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
Wow...these sound like some of the stories that Ken has told me. I love all of the cool stories. Keep it up! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif
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Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s
Hey Wayne, Thanks for all the great articles of the years! I learned alot from you. Loved the 69 Camaro!
and Kris, here is our 69 Camaro making a few runs. It was a pump gas 468 with 3.73s and 28 x12.50 ET Streets and no traction bars (thanks again Wayne!) PM me if you have any questions. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0173449938518# Andrew |
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