ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Anyone know the details ?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

No real details but here's the BJ link...
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...61&aid=466

ZL1 #48
VIN 124379N618902
4-Spd.
Lemans Blue

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Car was at show in Toronto last March for the first time. I have known the guy owned the car for years and never talked much about it.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

It is another long lost missing ZL1. It has never shown up on US title searches done decades ago by the guys who were seriously searching for these cars. It was in a body shop near Toronto a few years ago. I was told it had no trim tag and the body sheet metal dates were in the 24th week of '69 or so. I think this one needs some serious inspection.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

I concur, I heard it had those issues. What was there to start with?
Interesting wording:
&quot;The VIN# designates this car to be #48 .....&quot;

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quik9r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Car was at show in Toronto last March for the first time. I have known the guy owned the car for years and never talked much about it. </div></div>

Who owned it or do you know who restored it ?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Third party chatter,speculation, and hearsay from “some guy in a body shop” may not be a fair way to judge the car in question. Some of the information posted has originated from a source who has other issues with the owner, and is factually wrong. It is not always those who think they are&quot; in the know &quot;that have access to rare and elite cars. We all have a common interest in bringing real, rare cars into the spotlight. What is puzzling is how some cars with real issues dare not be criticized, yet new finds are dismissed so casually.

Quik9r

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

This is the same &quot;third parter chatter&quot; and &quot;hearsay&quot; that led to the 5 ZL1 Camaros that were registered by one owner one the same day, the questionable yellow L89 Camaro, numerous rebody issue Copo cars, etc. all occurring in Canada. This car is not casually dismissed but seriously questioned because of its inspection by &quot;some guy in a body shop&quot;. I bet it was in more than one body shop so how is the source who has issues with the car owner the only one who may have seen the car? At issue is the car itself. We hope is a real rare car, that just has not always been the case with some of the rare Canadian cars appearing in recent years with no real histories at all.

It all comes down to due diligence; if the body has March/earlier '69 not June '69 dates, the trim tag is real, etc. then this will be just idle chatter. Any prospective buyer will want to verify the true condition of the # 48 ZL1 Camaro in question with a qualified inspection. That is the only way to end all the idle chatter and set the facts straight.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Since my hobby is tracking down old owners/histories of cars - I may be able to add something to this thread. The Canadian guys should chime in also. I've imported &amp; owned a couple of Canadian BB Pace Cars. IMO, Canadian cars should be very desirable because of the rock solid GM documentation (it's like an NICB report that includes all OE options) combined with the Canadian ownership trail that follows the car. The last car that I purchased from Canada came with government documents that indicated the names, addresses, and dates of every past owner. The car was sold new in Quebec and later found its way to an owner in Ontario. The government documents followed the ownership between provinces. With this ownership trail in hand, it was easy to track down the old owners &amp; get statements regarding their experiences with the car. IMO this ZL1 car should show up at auction with complete ownership history (if the government policy of tracking previous owners hasn't changed in the past few years).

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

#48 was not shipped from Norwood to Canada so there will be no record of it with GM of Canada.

I'm one of the people that was chasing ZL1s years ago. Despite many inquiries [including NCIC] by several individuals over a 10-15 year period no US registration was ever located for this car. Not completely unusual for the time-some states didn't title cars in those days, some registered cars by county. Dealers could sell a car on MSO to racers who may have never registered it.

As camaromb has stated cars with &quot;Canadian Docs&quot; have become suspect. Several people have copies of ALL CDN shipping records; cars are being re-created from virtually nothing.

Docs notwithstanding the car has to speak for itself. I am looking forward to seeing it at B-J.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Good point William &amp; well taken - It should have a Canadian registration history and Canadian import docs though. Even if it wasn't registered in Canada, it should have import docs from crossing the border. Such a rare car without any history would be a little suspect in my mind no matter what the car looks like today. It would be cool if quik9r could provide the community with some of the background before the auction - it might even encourage more potential buyers to be at the auction (or bid on-line). Heck, I'm interested. :-).

GM of Canada used to send a copy of an entire page of computer print out with every car that they supplied documentation for. I know that I have a few pages (maybe 40 or 50 cars per page)of Canadian imported cars with VINs &amp; all ecl codes. There are some rare cars on there! But a car made up from air, no matter how accurate the resto is, has the same problem - no owners to talk to &amp; verify history.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

As long as it doesn't need to happen immediately I'm happy to run the VIN history here in Ontario Canada.
If dates don't reach back far enough or names are the same as other suspect air cars we've seen here in the past, looking closely at tags/sheet metal dates etc may accomplish nothing more than seeing how good a job was perhaps done creating it?
If the car was genuine whether the lost/unknown Vin car shipped to Nurse Chev in Whitby Ontario or any other a seller should be standing up crowing about it and supplying all info possible to convince possible buyers, not offering clever descriptions like the BJ info seems to include or working on a placard?

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Just a word of caution to stick to facts in this thread.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Just a word here... Docs from GM of Canada do not include the names of past owners, just the skinny on the car.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Pete - Good idea on the VIN search - also, your PM box is full.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

To clarify I was referring to the Ontario Ministry of Transportation Vin search which includes owner history known to the system, not GM Canada Vintage services paperwork.
If someone here's already doing/done this please speak up otherwise I'll run the Vin over the next few days and report back w/ the results.
For the record I'm hoping this car proves to be nothing less than absolutely genuine w/ indisputable tags and paperwork also hopefully that any paperwork can determine if it's the missing unknown Vin ZL1 sent to Nurse Chevrolet in Whitby Ontario as a back up motor for the Team Eaton Can-Am effort at the Mosport Canada track or not also if not that it includes new information on this same car.
For those keeping track of relevant dates, the Mosport race was June 01/69 where Eaton and his alloy Chevy McLaren finished 9'th or if the timeline fits better the following year's race was June 14/70 when Eaton DNF'd.

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Pete, your PM is full. Can you empty your in-box? I have a question for you.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

The owner history available from the MTO will show when the car was registered with the Province of Ontario. However, the car could have been in Canada for years prior, so a short MTO history is meaningless as far as &quot;air cars&quot; are concerned. Also, as has been mentioned, if it was not delivered to a Canadian dealer it would have no GM Documentation.Does anyone know where #48 was sold from initially?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

ZL1 # 48 was listed as originally sold at Gibb Chevrolet, LaHarpe, IL

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

If I owned a legit zl1 BJ is probable the last place I would take to sell it.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

It will probably end up here after the auction....

https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v...&amp;vq=medium

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Any results from running the vin?

Quik9r

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

what about the story of the yellow car the guy said it had a 427 aluninum engine i can not remeber what gm dealer

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

hey guys i did a little digging through my old notes and i have #48 as never licensed, it does not show up as one of the stolen cars it may have been turned into a race car very early.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Here are pictures of firewall of the car in question. How many things can you see wrong or missing on the March '69 Norwood built ZL1 # 48 firewall???

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Closer pic...

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Another pic...

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Side pic...at least it was blue...

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/...S_firewall.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...de%20small.jpg

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Ok thats one...RS hosing hole on a non RS car.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

I might be way off base but is that the original frame to the car? If so, shouldn't it have a proportioning valve metering block for power brakes mounted to the frame?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

The Canadian title history shows the car was registered in 2006 with no prior title history.

Incorrect/missing/questionable firewall items:

- RS hole in non-RS car
- incorrect cowl induction wiring location, not at the Norwood plant dimple location, LA plant had no dimple to locate.
- missing the cowl induction switch wiring clip hole.
- missing the cowl induction relay screw hole.
- missing the wiring gutter screw holes in the face of the vin-stamped cowl panel.
- missing the factory dimples in the face of the vin-stamped cowl panel, below the pass. side washer nozzle area.
- LA typical cowl foam glued to the top of the cowl on both sides, Norwood plant typically glued them to the underside of the cowl panel.
- missing the sealant around the complete heater box and vin stamped area but sealant is evident on the complete firewall seam and driver's side
firewall area.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Canadian guys - what kind of ownership documentation do you have to supply in order to register a car in Canada? Import docs? Sale receipt? Any proof of ownership?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

looks like a brake drum on the drivers side? i always get spooked out when ever i see the cowl tag pulled resto or not.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Is there a pic of the vin that ties ZL1 # 48 to these pics ?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Charley does the vin always appear on the deck pad on a ZL1 motor? is it every by the oil filter like an iron block?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Charley does the vin always appear on the deck pad on a ZL1 motor? is it every by the oil filter like an iron block?

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

Unless there is some way to tie #48 to those exact photo graphs, this could be any Camaro.

Quik9r

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

This thread is becoming boring. Four pages of posts about how this could not possibly be the rare #48 ZL1 that the authorities lost track of.

I am heading over to the thread about the #30 Dick Harrell Nova. That one is &quot;undocumented at this time&quot; but has three pages of congratulations on such a rare find. I just hope it's not too late to get in on the group hug.

Re: ZL1 # 48 coming to Barrett-Jackson
 

67Belair427...I posted the # 30 vin pic over on that group hug thread just for you.