Factory paint, wet sanded & buffed?
 

I know there are folks here who have actually worked(or still work) for GM. Out of curiosity, back in the day(and even now) do new cars get wet sanded and buffed at the factory?

I have seen many pictures over the years of cars being painted at the factory but I've never seen a picture of a car being sanded and buffed at the factory.

Thanks!

Base coat/clear coat - no

High solid enamel - not as part of the production process. There may be some sanding or buffing during a repair attempt of a specific area.

Lacquer - on some high end products there may have been buffing as part of the process but generally no, not since the 1930s or 1940s.

I'd say it is just too slow and labor intensive for the high volume mentality of the 1950s and 1960s.

K

Didn't Dealerships hire teens to "Prep" the car (paint) once they had a vehicle sold in the 1970's?

OP

Give me a date range of interest please.

https://i.postimg.cc/5NHr3q1v/68-Cor...t-Card0004.jpg

Chrysler charged extra for buffed Silver Metallic on it's cars during the middle to late 1960s. That was the only "standard" color that was buffed and had a cost to it.

https://i.postimg.cc/KYKV9PtC/screenshot-7245.png

Chevy charged extra for Sebring Silver on the 1963 Corvette - I assume it was because it was buffed (though I may be wrong)

I appreciate all the replies. That explains why I have never run across any assembly line wet sand/buff pictures.

Basically I have always been curious.

What caused the thread was I have purchased a '69 Firebird and when I get around to the restomod I want to paint it Verdoro Green. I would like it to look like a 1969 paint job.
I see a lot of restored cars that just don't seem to look like they did back in the day and I was wondering if it may be the paint finish(and radial tires) that throw off the look.

Most dealers just applied Polyglycoat

Corvettes were polished. Because the Reflow oven could not get hot enough to actually melt the paint as the steal cars had. And if they made it hot enough the fiberglass would melt.

Absolutely.

Lacauer has almost no shine until it is buffed.

I am almost certain I have seen a picture of a large mashine that actually did a cursury wet sand over the roof. Could not use a machine on hoods or anything that had a ridge. Old time detailers always talked about avoiding the ridges or any "leading edge" as lacquer is easy to buff right through if not done correctly.

Most of the car was not wet sanded, just buffed. That is why so many had orange peel.

Every car that came in was subject to a NVI (new vehicle inspection) where EVERY fluid level was checked before it hit the road. I did an inspection on one in 76 at a Buick dealer, and there was no grease in the rear axle!!! In addition to the NVI, there was dealer prep, which incluced buffing the car. As with most things, some got done very well, others.... no so much.

I don't know what year GM started using base / clear. I know my 73 BMW came from the factory base / clear, but that was a few years before GM started using it.

Gotcha! Assuming your Firebird is a Norwood Build then as an example the order was expressed as:

-Second undercoat and Prime
-Bake
-Wet sanding/Buff
-First finish coat
-Bake
-Second Finish Coat
-Bake
-Polish

(Echoes of Norwood page 96 (GM/FB paint process order flow chart)

BUT: the process changed again slightly with the phase in of ELPO and the use of the 50,000 gallon electrostatic prime system

In the Pre Elpo era of sprayed undercoat and prime, Buffing was done primarily to remove dirt from the undercoat prior to the first paint coat.

After the phase in of ELPO primer the paint process featured the addition of buffing before the final reflow oven. After the reflow oven the unit went to the polish station as normal.


The car could also be sanded and buffed again in a final step at an area called Automotive General Repair (AGR).

Just take a look at an original unrestored car.

You might change your mind about that.

K

Not a 50 year old 1969 paint job. A brand new 1969 paint job.

It will probably look like a 1929 paint job because I'll shoot it in my garage.

Our new '69 GMC pickup had no lube in the rear axle.

It made it almost halfway home from the dealership before it locked up.

K

You have reminded me: In the truck world we did do a light scuff of the ELPO and then wipe with a tack rag but it was to promote adhesion of the color coat as much as anything else.

K

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/Assembly%20Line.htm

I agree - at the St. Louis Corvette plant, their was a polishing station on the assembly line that all cars went through. No wet sanding except on the repair line as needed.

My black 69 Z/28 received almost no color on the lower 2 inches of the rear valance in one area about 10 inches long.... from the factory.

Oh yea!

Big signs along the line warning everyone not to touch the units too. ELPO was very sensitive to any foreign matter for the purposes of adhesion control.

GM started using Base/clear first on '82 Corvettes that were tu-toned, it was an enamel clearcoat.

Then Corvettes from '84 up all metallic colors used base/clear, some solid colors were still single stage.

GM Trucks have always used enamels weather solid or metallic.

The last known lacquers were in 1990 on the B-body line.

Asian and European produced vehicles first started base/clear in '72 on metallic colors only, once again enamels.


Back in the 90's into early 2000's we subcontracted for GM upgrading vehicles bound for the press and media, primarily ensuring the quality of the finish and color uniformity was above and beyond what the assembly line was producing for the general public.
This entailed color sanding and buffing, all the way to complete refinishing of the exterior (complete disassembly of trim, glass, etc.) and some times door jambs. GM wanted to give the press and media exceptional cars to write and review about. I would have anywhere from 3 to 7 vehicles at a time, these were then provided to P&M all over the country.

OP:

Here you go and it is a Firebird. This is the polish station on the line.

FYI.. I am doing another book next year-again on Norwood and this will be in it so here is a teaser.

This might be newer than your focus but we started using base coat/clear coat on Blazers and Suburbans in the 1989 model year.

K

I bought this from a Ol timer that worked for GM. I had it on my windshield at MCACN hoping to learn more a out it as the guy I got it from was clueless. At any rate, happened on the line or at the dealer or who knows..... pretty cool paper. Anyone seen one before?

BIG

Keith, you are correct, with the intro of the new body style, 1988 was the first year for trucks using Base/clear , some solid colors were still single stage.

Like this?

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=155503

K

The paint jobs were not as bad as some make them out to have been...
2 photos of an original paint 68 Z from the Camaro Nat last weekend.
The fine lacquer texture is difficult to achieve without using something as thin(viscosity) as lacquer.

That being said:
REALIZE the bodies were sprayed using guns mounted on rails which went back and forth ... the guns didn't tip when getting to the bottom of the rocker...
Buck your front end sheet metal with a 1-2" gap and do not give complete coverage on the aprons down to the engine compartment.

Other than that... if shooting a metallic and going for correct... reduce the amount of metallic by 25%. (this is from experience having colors mixed from formula or scans and shooting things judged at NCRS) also If you want a correct looking metallic you are going to have to shoot a couple of coats of clear with color mixed prior to final clear. Same with BC CC - black... if you shoot with straight clear it will not look as black as an original black lacquer so shoot 2 coats of 50% base 50% clear over the black base with clear to trap the light and make it INK BLACK. .

I'm not overplaying this. Mine IS that bad, complete with hairs in the paint and handprints in the hood and decklid. Not to mention the passenger door rubs on the fender when you open it.

All perfectly preserved for our viewing pleasure.

K

Where is that garage??

Gilmore Car Museum. Hickory Corners Michigan

Keith,

You are right and the real data shows the quality. These two graphs are in Echoes of Norwood at page 130 and show first generation "F" car quality as both an audit result showing specific demerits as well as the running average of combined paint and metal discrepancies during the 1969 model year. With this said, a original car will respond well to a buff and polish, however the blood metrics show things as they were.

To quote a paint superintendent during the walk around at MCACN in 2017

"None of these cars look anything like what we built- pick the worst car here with the worst paint and you have what we rolled off the line on a normal day".

As an aside the Norwood workers had little to no interaction with any of the perfectly restored cars or the owners while we were there. These were the mirrored and wheel off display cars. When they approached these cars the owners typically did not speak to the Norwood workers which they thought was a bit strange.

To a man the Norwood workers agreed these cars were perfectly restored and were so good they were also very over restored.

Final line guy summed it up best: "Hey who wants to have us look at a car like that- I mean it is so well done, and if they ask me how well they did the car and how authentic it is well gee who wants to hear that the axle should be scratched from the pedestals on the final line, or frames should be scratched from the production process, bad paint,trim fit, and so on" these guys have a lot of money invested here".

Thank you; at the risk of taking us even farther into the ditch:

I met via a mutual friend the gentleman who was at one time the paint shop supervisor in Pontiac, Michigan, where all three of my classic Pontiacs were built.

He said that the deficiencies on my car, including a "swiped area" on the decklid, were the result of pressing too hard on the "tack rag" (a treated cloth for wiping the car before paint. We still used those when I worked in the assembly plant in the late 70's and 1980's). He said the pressure causes the solvents from the rag to become embedded in the primer resulting in laquer checking in a very recognizable pattern.

He also said that any women working in the paint shop were required to tell him when they were menstruating. Apparently the female body emits a hormone very much like silicone which caused fish eyes in the paint (and therefore wreaked havoc in the paint shop).

Try getting away with THAT these days...

K

Keith,

It is not the women..It is the option of using a menstral cup which is made of pure silicone.

Silicone even in trace amounts were enough to shut down the paint line once the vapor made its way into the air handling system.

One squirt of armor-all is all it took at Norwood. PPG brought some show cars in in the mid 1970's for in plant display and had wiped the tires in armor all. The entire plant had to stop production because of it.

Here is a photo of a 72 ZR1 corvette which according to the NCRS C3 judges is painted as the factory painted them.
This car was shot with Ontario Orange Base then one mottled coat catalyzed clear with 40% flattener shot with the volume and fan wide open...


As an aside...
I recently shot a 71 Warbonnet LT1 Roadster for another NCRS member and I used a 15% flattener in the clear, which I also thinned 15% so as to get a finer texture, it top flighted and lost zero on the paint.

Well done!:flag::flag: