Fantom Works ZL1 clone
 

Just watched the final episode of Fantom Works where Dan and his crew built a 1969 Camaro ZL1 clone for a client. Apparently Dan had two ZL1 motors, one of which he wasn't willing to part with. The other he sold to the client for use in this clone.

I wonder if it was a motor out of one of the original ZL1 cars or if it was an over the counter motor. Car looked pretty nice when it was done. Supposedly built to look like the #68 ZL1.

That was the last episode for Fantom Works as the series is over. I think he had some legal issues with the shop as well as some legal issues with a charity he set up for modifying muscle cars for disabled vets.

That's very sad to read that he's in such debt as a result of filming that show. While I didn't always agree with how some of the owners wanted their cars built (Cobra with missile in the nose) it was obvious that Dan and his team truly cared about the work they turned out.

Back to the original reason for the post; does anyone know if the ZL1 engine used for that tribute car was from one of the original 69 or was it an over the counter motor?

I have also been a fan of the show and will miss it. Sad that it ended badly for Dan and his shop.

As for the #68 ZL1 clone, remember they inherited it as a roller needing to be finished. The interior shots where they are trying to get the shifter aligned show that it was built from a ’69 Firebird body; the dash is completely different. They had trouble with the shifter because they used a standard trans cross-member, probably furnished by the customer. Trans is dated P8E02 and partial VIN was 18A; had a fine-spline input. I’ll stop here.

As for the engine, the casting sequence number appears to be in the 200s, beyond the range for production ZL1 Camaros. It could have been originally sold as a bare block or an assembly.

And of course the air cleaner seal was upside down :sigh: the Clone looked pretty though!

Just more fakes.

That now makes TWO clones of the #68 car (cough . . . cough).

It looked like when they changed out the starter during the show, they installed a smaller
"mini" starter that in now way was correct. Also noticed one piece rotors, car probably should have had 2-piece rotors.

So the good blue felpro pan gasket came stock on these beer can motor’s

And were all upset about a guy selling nOS paperwork. Lmao.

I had a visit once to a speed shop in Austin Tx that had a show with a well known bike builder and like Fantomworks they had to deal with the drama they tried to bring to the show and the excitement really wasn't there most of the time. after chatting with the owner they dropped the series and got back to building hot rods. Our favorite GMG (said with sarcasm) is still going and the spinoffs, to me its hard to watch as I think that people think all Texans are like that. I dont need drama, I like learning from some of these guys!

I recorded this this (possibly a mistake) for my wife to see/watch. At the beginning there talking about ZL-1 and suck, like numbers made and the "value" of the "dated-coded" parts that go with it. I look at the wife and say, "that's the motor that's in the car in the garage".

Now they were going over this date-coded original this and that. But I thought the ZL-1's came with a natural alum waterpump? Not the black painted like the show portrayed?

Also, if one is doing a clone/tribute, are correct dated-coded parts really necessary? Like why not run say a 1971 dated intake/heads or waterpump/starter alternator. YES it's more authentic to use dated-coded parts, but that would drive the price up exponentially too. And save the correct date-coded stuff for real authentic cars.

I do want to do, and I'm keeping an eye out, for a 1969 Vette to make a ZL-1 clone/tribute.

ZL1 Camaro #1 [possibly also #2] had an aluminum pump; #1 had a pilot engine built at Flint. Legend has it the pump bearing loosened in durability testing. Later production Camaro ZL1 engines had production 'long' iron pumps painted black.

Corvettes used the 'short' pump. Could be the ZL1s used an aluminum version of it.

The ZL1 engine pictured on the cover of the December '68 Hot Rod is configured for a Corvette and has a black coolant pump. The April '82 Corvette Fever magazine has a feature on the restoration of the yellow ZL1 Corvette. Pics of the engine [nom] show an aluminum pump.

I have yet to see an alluminum gm long waterpump? What is the part number?

My opinion on a clone is that it should be visibly correct, like a gm distributor, the part number is hard to see so who cares, the heads need to be the winters snowflake along with the intake, Stock valve covers, etc

The aluminum coolant pump was covered by John Hooper in his 1969 Camaro Reference Book. There's a photo and it is definitely the long-style. It was noted in photos taken at Dick Harrells' shop early in 1969.

The casting number of the pump was 3968811. It was released to production and cancelled due to durability concerns. The owner of the #1 ZL1 Camaro during the restoration had connections to Chevy Engineering and was able to locate one. Original photos of the #3 ZL1 Camaro, built 9 weeks later, show a black cast iron pump.

So maybe #1 and 2 had the alluminum pump only? Has anybody seen these pumps for sale?

It's beyond my comprehension to understand how William is so knowledgeable about these cars...…… Hat's off to William !!!!!!!!…… Like I said in another thread.....The knowledge base on this site is ground zero with the ability to call out the "Made" cars !!!!!

2019 will be year #44 of my involvement with '69 Camaros. I'm with a great network of fellow '69 nerds. Get regular calls, emails, photos of curious stuff. Last week, an incredible photo of the trunk contents of a '69 Z/28 basically parked for 50 years.

Got involved with ZL1s in 1987; always more to learn. Yesterday out of the blue, the original owner of a DX'd Gibb ZL1 sends me a scan of the dealer invoice. In addition, he is personal friends with the guy that raced the #4 ZL1. Gave me his number. No telling what he may have or remember about it.

It's all about developing and maintaining relationships with like-minded people. On occasion I have been provided with info with the proviso that it remains confidential and it does. Otherwise I'm happy to share. Sad that there are people still sitting on piles of information, demanding to be paid.

My 2 cents. Thanks Ken!

Cross ram and headers? ;)

No headers. Carbs still have the cardboard covers.

Incredible ! !

Thanks William, please keep the info flowing.

I have one of these motors too I guess, "052" block but don't see and number stamped on it anywhere, so I would think it's the over the counter deal. At this time I have it together and installer in my '69 SS396/350Hp 4 sp Nova chassis (the original drivetrain is long gone). But I have also built this motor around the F.A.S.T. style of build. So heads are "074's" I think 1970's casting, ported. These were worked on before I got them already, we just did more. Already had the 2.25 valve in there from AFR. I have a repo "198" intake fully worked over inside. Full custom roller. So basically it "looks" like it would in '69 but with headers, diferent oil pan and balancer. It did dyno at 785Hp and that's down some from where we thought it should be and the upper RPM number sorta just sit there. Think the block is moving around.

I like doing things that the factory SHOULD have? So the '69 ZL-1 style Nova. I also have my other streetcar. It's going to be more of a driver 1967 Nova SS. BUT this to has sorta gone the direction of COPO. Car is an Ex Fj Smith SuperStock car. Has Heidts front frame and still tubbed in the back. Roll bar is out and full interior with backseat and factory console and shifter. It has a '69 4 bolt block done to L72 specs, nice SFT cam that's a bit more than a ZL-1 cam, port '69 215 oval ports and strip dom intake and T400 trans going in with gear vendor.

So any and all info from the days gone by is just more knowledge for everyone.

785 hp? Chevrolet still offers the ZL1 block in the Performance Parts catalog. The listing carries the notation Tested to 650 horsepower. Iron blocks are good to 800.

Just sayin'.

Ya I know were pushing the old block that's for sure. Engine Analyzer Pro that we use at that shop and were usually close. Mine modeled out at 835Hp so that's why we think the block is moving around.

We have a few stock block pushing more then 800Hp. It's all the attention to details. My "052" block has been cryo treated and then sent out for vac sealing too. Does it help, ????? Don't know but that fact that I have tried it gives me some piece of mine at 7300RPM I did what I could to keep it together. I don't really follow the norm with what things are "good" too? I have a 498 in a old Bowtie block that make 1270+ on motor with the cast single 4 intake. People say things are "good" to X amount of power or RPM's, but that doesn't take into account the weight of the rotating assembly? My billet crank is like 38lbs compare to a stock one that's around 70lbs, then you add light alum rods, superlight pistons and pins, it's all the little details. So the rotating assembly is less then 1/2 of what a typical BBc could be.

My ZL-1 has a Scat superlight crank, 2.100 (SB chevy) rod journals down from 2.200 BBc are and light weight rods and pistons/pins. Will it last?????? So far about 20 dyno pulls we seem good, nothing showing on the rod or main bearings, so in the car she goes.

Now what is a GM forged BBc crank "good" too? I don't know. But I do know Sam Gianino used to us offset ground GM OEM cranks for his 548 2 stage Nitrous motors and they last a couple seasons. So dod Scott Schafiroff in "The Fun City Flyer" 1st gen. Camaro with the 496 that ran 7's. And the new ZL-1 blocks are rated at 650 really is a joke. There was one I knew off running in a Nostalgia Top Fuel car for 2 season. I talked to the guy about buy it, but for the $$$ and that it was a complete TF short just kept me away. I think it ran low 6 in Top Fuel. Had to be making over 2000Hp with that block and running I believe 98% Nitro.