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Gramma's Car: the new project!
It's been slow around here so we decided to do a little engine work on the 1975 Firebird that my grandmother bought new from Ruckles Pontiac in Yonkers, New York back in September 1975. My grandfather traded in a 1969 Thunderbird plus cash for the Firebird and drove it off the lot. Gramma Rose drove the car for several years and then ended up giving us the car in the early 1980's when the door just got way too heavy to pull shut. (Anyone with a second gen F-body will know exactly what I mean).
We got the car with 38,000 miles and my brother drove it for a few years til it ran up 70,000 miles. At that point it just sat around and I ended up taking it and repainting the car and giving it back to my father as a gift. He proceeded to park it in the garage and throw all sorts of things on top of it and drag garden hoses across it. So I reposessed it in 2004 and brought it back to my house. Anyway, Since my daughter helped rebuild the engine in the 72 T/A back when she was 8, I figured it was time to let my son try his hand. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...bird75001b.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...d/SDC10215.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
First thing we did was a compression test on the engine. Here's the results:
cyl 1: 125 psi cyl 2: 120 psi cyl 3: 125 psi cyl 4: 115 psi cyl 5: 115 psi cyl 6: 120 psi cyl 7: 115 psi cyl 8: 125 psi I then sprayed some oil in the low psi cylinders and retested with negligible improvement. (So that means it's the rings, not the valves - more on this later). Since there was more than 10% variation between the highest and lowest pressures, it was time for a freshening. I unplugged everything rather uneventfully in a day and got it out of the engine bay with the help of the wife and the kids. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10277.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10317.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Other than a change to a 1972 cast iron four barrel intake and a camshaft/valvespring/timing chain swap in 1994, nothing has ever been done to the internals of this 350 engine.
With the boy by my side we pulled the engine apart and did some forensic examination of the parts. I'm a firm believer in actually examining what you have as you take it apart and not just throwing everything in a pile in the center of the garage. We found some interesting things. The lifter valley was reasonably clean with a little tarnish on everything. Cam looked fine. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10305.jpg The double roller timing chain was stretched quite a bit. When you set it at "0" on the timing mark and then tried to rotate the crank, you get the mark on the balancer to line up with the "4" dgeree mark before the distributor rotor would move. Thats a bit much slack. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10346.jpg Pulled the heads and it looked like a bit of oil was burning in some of the cylinders. If you looked into the exhaust ports you could see the oil sludge seeping though the guides. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10328.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
A bit of carbon on the pistons but the bores looked beautiful - a mirror finish with no scratches anywhere.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10335.jpg The bottom end showed quite a bit of tarnish on everything, the results of years of sitting with old oil, I imagine. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10340.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Take a look at the piston and tell me what is wrong with this picture....
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10362.jpg Yeah, nice factory alignment of the ring gaps. All eight pistons had the gaps on every compression ring and every oil ring lined up with each other. It defies logic. Every kid learns in high school shop class that you have to stagger the ring gaps in different locations to avoid loss of compression and high oil consumption. All I can think is this was some type of job action or purposeful sabotage by the guy at the engine assembly plant back in 1975. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img] No wonder the car never had any ooomph when you hit the gas. (Original machine marks on the piston skirts look nice, though) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] We removed the compression rings and checked the ring gaps: Cyl 1: .032, .030 Cyl 2: .032, .032 Cyl 3: .030, .032 Cyl 4: .032, .035 Cyl 5: .035, .032 Cyl 6: .030. .035 Cyl 7: .028, .028 Cyl 8: .025, .030 I believe the spec is supposed to be .019 plus/minus .010. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
10-1 odds you end up doing a 4 year frame off...
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Steve is that a Formula, or was there a hood swap?
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
It was an Esprit and I added the ram air hood and the correct ram air air cleaner back when I painted it in 1994.
Hopefully we'll have the engine back in in the next month or so. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] (Haven't heard that one before, now have we?) I'm dropping the heavy parts off at the machinist on Friday. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Main bearings/journals looked beautiful:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10342.jpg The rod bearings/journals looked just as nice. Oil clearance was still within spec. And yes, I stamped each rod with the numbers. They were all unnumbered when we popped the pan off. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10357.jpg It still had the original asbestos rear main seal which was leaking badly along with the timing cover seal, oil pan gasket, torque converter seal, tailshaft seal, rear pinion seal..... http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/SDC10370.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's the empty block awaiting a trip to the shop:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006287.jpg and all the parts: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006286.jpg And of course the typical monkey wrench in the ointment...cracked exhaust manifold. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006283.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006285.jpg If I can't find a replacement I might upgrade to the repro ram air manifolds. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Steve...this is a cool thread...love engine rebuild stories...they take me back to my younger days [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Keep us posted with info and more photos...good luck!! wilma |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
It gives the boy something to do that doesn't involve a video game. He was rather amazed at how the internal parts all connected with each other. Hopefully that will grow into something. The daughter wants to be an engineer, so maybe her third grade engine building experience, years ago, helped spur the interest.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Good stuff Steve. Keep it coming.
BTW, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img] I came up with a 9.2% diff between your high and lo pressures. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
DOH!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...pson2Thumb.gif If I could do math, I woulda been a doctor, dagnabbit! |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thats a cool car...I have a metal dealer emblem from Ruckles in yonkers...I didnt know they were a Pontiac dealer
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I have all the original paperwork on the car, even the broadcast sheet that was under the rear seat. It was a leftover sitting on the lot at the end of the model year, when they bought it. Ruckles also had a leftover Trans Am but Gramma Rose didn't like the "bump in the hood." (She was kind of short and it blocked her view of the road). [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10-1 odds you end up doing a 4 year frame off... </div></div>
Dan...LOL Steve wouldn't do that...would he? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And so it begins..........................
another epic thread, and I was in at the start of this one! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
love those cars..cool thread Steve .... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ..again
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
You want to check with these people.... they seem to have the exhaust manifold you need... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] http://home.earthlink.net/~jnjvette/Non-Vette.htm email is .... [email protected] ....................................... FL1-02914 Exhaust Manifold Date Code, L165 1 G 4996240 $75.00 Contact Us |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The daughter wants to be an engineer, so maybe her third grade engine building experience, years ago, helped spur the interest. </div></div>
That's awesome Steve! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Your grandma sure had a COOL car! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrsBillyBobcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's awesome Steve! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Your grandma sure had a COOL car! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img] </div></div> She was a cool lady. Here's a shot of her hangin' with Mr. Mojo himself, Tom Jones at a dinner party back in the day: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...atomjones2.jpg [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/blush.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10-1 odds you end up doing a 4 year frame off... </div></div>
LOL! Yeah, but it would be the nicest '75 Firebird anyone ever saw! |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<span style="font-size: 14pt">WOW! Very C [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img] L Steve! </span> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LOL! Yeah, but it would be the nicest '75 Firebird anyone ever saw! </div></div> <span style="font-size: 11pt">So TRUE! </span> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Loaded up all the engine parts in the truck. Ready to get dropped off tomorrow. Here's a couple shots of the interior. The only things that I replaced over the years were the sagging headliner and the carpet. Everything else is as it was in 75. Including the vintage (and muddy) J.C. Whitney floormats.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006288.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006291.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006292.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006295.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thanks to one of the guys (Jim, a.k.a. x-bird2) over at Performanceyears.com, I have a replacement set of exhaust manifolds in my hands now. He's a local Pennsylvania boy (with a 73 SD455 Formula) and he just gave them to me. He said the reason he hadn't thrown them in the scrap pile before, was that they were down in the basement and it was too much effort to drag them up to throw away. (They still had the head pipes attached).
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
How did you fix the headliner??
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The 75's used a cardboard backed headliner with the fabric glued to it. (Not a full fabric headliner with steel bows like the earlier cars). I think they started that in 1973?
Like modern car headliners, the foam layer that's bonded to the fabric eventually deteriorates and one day you get in the car and the darn thing is touching your head. So I just bought new material and some spray headliner glue, pulled the cardboard backing out, attached the new headliner and reinstalled. It was very simple - about a hundred times easier than the old style fabric and bow headliners. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Congrats to another looong build thread! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Just dropped off the engine parts. He agreed the bores looked great...and then laughed and said "But the ridge (and the bore measurement) indicates it's time for bigger pistons." He said to blame Gramma for that: all those two mile trips to the beauty salon with the engine never fully warming up and the choke flushing all that extra gas down in the engine ends up washing the cylinder walls of oil.
So now I have to start shopping for some replacement pistons once he tells me what size we need. Anyone have a Summit Racing coupon out there??? |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006288.jpg Steve, are those idiots lights on the left side of dash cluster? What is under the ashtray ? I am REALLY impressed with the Tom Jones pic. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Yup, those are the factory idiot lights in the large circular gauge on the left. You had to pay extra for the gauge package back then. I installed an autometer mini gauge cluster in the map pocket of the console back in the 90's just to keep an eye on things.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Looks like that old Firebird has been well preserved and well maintained. Those cars really show the wear and tear if they aren't. Nice car!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Spent the day cleaning the turbo 350 tranny. Since the car sat for most of its life, all the seals needed attention. I replaced the torque converter seal, the tailshaft seal and the pan gasket and filter.
Here is the rather dirty trans wheeled out the driveway after I swapped the converter and driveshaft yoke seals. The old furniture moving cart came in handy, along with some old railroad tie sections. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006296.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006297.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I then used a spray bottle full of Purple Stuff degreaser and some wooden sticks and vinyl/brass brushes to clean all the oil, tar, mud and sand that was encrusted on the sides. Took several "lather, rinse, repeat" iterations to get it comepletely clean. I stayed away from steel wire brushes as they tend to scratch the aluminum.
Sure is handy having the cherry picker to hang the thing on. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006304.jpg http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006309.jpg After hoisting the tranny up I was able to pull the pan and replace the filter. The pan looked great, no metal in there. I guess someone back in the 70's replaced the filter as there was some gasket goo on the pan gasket. The underside of the pan was pefect, flat, and scratch free, further evidence that the tranny had never been out of the car. (They usually get dragged across the floor when removed.) I was careful to not place it on the ground, in order to further preserve the pan's finish. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006310.jpg Here is the VIN stamp location on the turbo 350. Happily, this one matches the car and the engine. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006307.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
All done and headed back into the garage. Last thing left to do is the filler tube O-ring which doesn't arrive til tomorrow.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/S7006303.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Steve, do you recall where you got your material for the headliner from?? I need to do my 74 z/28.
Thanks |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Thanks Steve. I will give them a call.
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