Electronic Brake Control Module ....& GM

[SSJunkie68-69]

Well I thought I would throw this out there and see what you all had to say and provide any thoughts to this problem and for a resolution. It's a long one so get a cup of coffee or whatever and be prepared....My daily driver is a 2002 AWD Escalade that I bought in late 2002 used with 12K miles on it. It has served me well over the years with relatively little spent on it outside of the normal wear and tear items. I have been pleased with it overall. 22 months ago the stabiltrack light comes on and the car is just starting to act a little cranky, like completely locking up on me and not moving. I admit, when it comes to the newer stuff I am not too familiar with it and decided to take it to my local mechanic Mike whose family has been running a filling station and garage on the same corner in my town for 56 years. His Dad started it. He looked at and told me this was something beyond his skill set or anyone else at the shop and reluctantly told me to take it to the dealer saying those guys are better trained and are up to date on this stuff.

Even though I hate going to the dealer, I took his advice and went. The truck had 131K miles on it at this point. Once at the dealership, the problem was mostly with the electronic brake control module, the brain unit behind the ABS. It needed to replaced. The service tech told me it's an expensive part but pretty easy to install. They gave me a price of $3,500.00. After I picked up my chin from the floor I told the guy, you must be kidding, right? He said no the part was $2,800.00 and there were some other misc parts needed and about $220 in labor and should they start on the work as the EBCM was something that was not stocked and had to be ordered. I told him to hold off and let me explore my options. I was thinking let me price a used/junkyard one or a reconditioned one. I called Mike and told him what the dealer told me and what it was going to cost. He said, they got ya by the short hairs don't they. I told him I was going to explore my options and he said for that type of coin he would do the same thing. Bottomline I found that the AWD take a different EBCM then the 2WD models and looking at parts yards from Maryland, Virginia and PA there was only one and it was off a wreck with 85K miles on it. The yard wanted $950 for it and I figured I could get it for $800. My research for reconditioned ones indicated that I could pick one up for $1700 but I had to return the one I was replacing.

So I started thinking wreck or reconditioned. The wreck one had some miles on it and since my original lasted 130K miles I should get at least 30K or so out of this one and maybe more and save anywhere from $1800-2000 but would be taking a chance. The reconditioned one would save me $1100.00. So I called the dealership and told him what I was thinking and $3500 was just ridiculous for a truck with 131K miles. He told me I would be crazy to go with a junkyard part because you never know with those and it is the brain behind the brakes. As far as the recondition one, he told me he would have to check with the service manager to see if they could do that as he was understanding my point. He got back to my in an hour and said the service manager said no go because there are liability issues and since it was the brakes they didn't want to do that. He went on to further say that you really should go with new and avoid any head aches or problems down the road but I told him true, but there are some serious savings. He said he had a one time coupon for $500 that would be applied to the repair. So that made the difference between reconditioned vs new $600. I hate spending money when I think I can save just as much as the next guy but I thought the piece of mind knowing that it would be new and the original lasted 130K miles than this one should too. Plus I drive the kids around in this so it was worth it just to be on the safe side. I sucked it up and put off a few things I was going to do and ponied up and figured well I'll keep changing the oil and have this truck for a few more years.

A week ago tonight I ran up to the local mini mart to grab some milk and eggs. It's about 4 miles from my home and all country roads. Along the way I felt the brake pedal being spongey and on the return trip going down a hill at 30 mph I only had at best 10% of my brakes. I down shifted all the way to first and applied the emergency brake slowly and was able to stop at the intersection where I had a stop sign but the other cars didn't and the posted speed is 50 MPH. When I got home I looked at the master cylinder and saw it was pretty much empty. I put some DOT 3 in and pumped the brakes and got a little pedal back but not much more. So I'm thinking must of broke a brake line, I mean after all it's a 10 year old truck with a 160K miles on it now. I thought I would get up early in the morning and take it to Mike's shop, get it in the air and see what line broke. When I did , we found all the lines were intact but that friggin 22 month old fancy dancy EBCM with less than 30K miles on it was dripping fluid. Mike said sorry man, but you should take it back to the dealership. So I did.

The dealer ship looked at and said it was a faulty pressure switch, a $15 part was the culprit and they were surprised that my local boy could figure that one out. They would repair it but had to order the switch and it would be ready late the next day or early the following morning. The called me and said it was ready and I owed them a $178 so I went to pick it up. The part was $ 15 but they added in some BS charges and $18 for cleaning fluid and $110 for labor. That is why hate
going to dealerships..too much BS. We reviewed the bill and they decided to take out the cleaning fluid charge, the shop supply charge, the enviormental charge and labor service fee charge and I paid for the part, labor and sales tax. I left there kind of ticked off they nickeled and dimed me plus they put my buddy Mike and his shop down. He has 12 pumps and 3 service bays not 60 plus a body shop and showrooms for 3 different brands each with their own building.

I was supposed to meet a client in Baltimore on a project on Weds but could b/c the truck was in the shop and the wife was using her car so I called and explained and we rescheduled for Friday. A round trip for me to this part of Baltimore is about 95 miles. I call the guy to let hin know I'm on my way but he said he was on the project till 1:30 Am earlier and was leaving to get a some rest and could we meet on Monday. This freed me up to do some other stuff I was behind with so I said sure, no problem. Got home from work around 7:00 or so played with the kids had dinner with the wife and little ones, walked the dogs and was just sitting down to enjoy a nice ice cold beer when one of my daughters asked me to get something from the store for her that I missed the other day. Looking at my with those eyes, I could not say nope, your dad just sat down after a long day and is going to enjoy this beer. So the beer went back in the Ice box, I got in the truck and headed 6 miles to town. As I was pulling in the parking lot I felt the brake pedal get spongey again and thought to myself no way....I opened the master cylinder and 3/4 of the fluid was gone. I checked my milage for the day and it was 43 miles and 3/4's of the fluid is spent. I filled it back up with more fluid got my daughter her thing and went home.

Called the dealership Saturday morning, told them what happened and they said bring it in for a look. I did and they said they would get back to me which never happened that day. Monday I get a call from them and they said they made a mistake it wasn't the pressure switch after all but the EBCM was the problem. I said really the one that was 22 months old and less than 30K miles on it? Yes was their answer. It needs to be replaced and the cost it going to be around $2800. I said great replace it, but don't expect me to pay for it. I just played this game with you 22 months ago. Their response was "we only offer a 12 month or 12K warranty on this repair. This is clearly out of the warranty period." I said you are clearly out of your mind if you think I'm spending another $2800 to fix this. That would mean in the past 22 months I would of spent close to 6K for brakes. I asked to speak to the service manager but was told he is on vacation this week. I said fine then call him on his cell. Can't do that was the answer. I said OK then call the factory rep and explain to them what is going on and their part failed. Get them to replace it. Answer was OK we will try that. Ten minutes later I get a call back informing me the rep said no, they are not going to participate since it's outside of the warranty period. My response was then please give me their name and number I will call them. Answer, I'm not allowed to give out that info however I can give you a 866 number for GM customer service.

So I placed the call, explained this whole mess and the guy actually sided with me. Said the part failed. He needed to check with the dealership and if the facts check out and he would call me back later that day. He did call me back and told me the dealership did back up the facts and even told him the part did prematurely fail. So now he is taking it to the next level. I said what's that. Answer, I will get my manager involved and see what can be done. You shouldn't be paying twice and I would be getting called back Tuesday by mid day. I hung up the phone and thought to myself wow GM is getting their act together. Today I got the call at 3;00 to inform me nothing has been decided. The manager has called the contact at the dealership 3 times with no return call and sent an email with no response. He is starting to talk the out of warranty BS but understands the situation and parts failure so he has to come up with an out of the box solution. Not like the way he was talking I told him, look plan and simple the original part lasted 131K miles the new one didn't make if past 30K. I'm not paying anymore towards the repair, especially since the dealership mis diagnosed it to begin with. I said the brakes have failed twice. I am just lucky, no let me rephrase that, we are just lucky that there was no injury to persons or property as a result of the both failures due to a faulty part. If their had been the lawyers would be involved and it would not be pretty and certainly cost way more than this part that is obviously bad. So the out of the box answer I'm seeing to is to suck it up and replace the part, keep a GM customer happy who is a tax payer that bailed you all out! Answer, well stated sir. I will call you tomorrow and we will have this resolved.

I know this is a long post/rant and if you made it this far without losing interests I am curious to see/read what your thoughts about this would be. I mean, it does suck to have to pay twice, especially since they pretty much told me that if you go used/junkyard or reconditioned it may not last long. Has anyone else had to deal with GM customer service and had a favorable outcome. The dealership mentality is very discouraging.They don't even have a loaner to let me use. I talked to a buddy this morning who said keep on them and be firm, they will eventually do it just so you will leave them alone.

The silver lining in this is that I have been driving to and from work in my '68 SS/RS L34 Rag Top. I have had this car a long time and tomorrow will mark the first time I have driven it every day for a solid week.....got to find something positive out of all this BS~

[SSJunkie68-69]

Update....

Today they offered me a 3K coupon towards the purchase or lease of a new vehicle. They acknowledge the part prematurely failed but was not defective....Go Figure [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img]

GM Customer service did a 180 from what they told me earlier.

Suggestions?

[Charley Lillard]

I think I would consult a product liability lawyer.

[napa68]

One must keep the cost of the repair in relation to the cost of the vehicle when new. It would not shock me if the truck new was around 60K and is around 80K these days. One must also remember you are asking a new part to perform in a 130K vehicle. Nothing is the same electrically in the truck. The more toys and trinkets on a vehicle just drives the cost of repairs.

A 12/12 warranty on a repair is pretty much standard issue today. If you were slightly beyond it, I would have no differing opinion than the OP. Better part of a year and 18K miles, that's quite a bit to ask for. I do understand the refusal to utilize a reman or used unit given the state of liability today.

I can understand the frustration for the expense. I think one is asking a lot including a loaner given we are discussing a 10 year old 130K truck purchased second hand.

[juliosz]

Hmmmmmm, checked GM parts direct and the electronic brake control module for this vehicle shows an MSRP of aprox $1800.00. GM Parts direct price is just under $1000.00. There are a couple of others for all wheel drive depending on equipment but I chose this one as its the most expensive of them all. I also found this place that rebuilds EBCMs: Link

Good luck, hope you can get at least another 100k out of it.

[68l30]

Some service dept's today do too much R&amp;R and not enough trouble shooting. Is there another issue that keeps putting a load on this part? Kinda sounds like putting new O2 sensors on a car every six months just to keep the light out. How deep have they dug?

I've gone round and round with a few tech's and understand the frustration.Sometimes you have to walk away and find another specialty garage that is up to date on training. We have a local garage that had to school our local Chevy Dealer after they got their franchise pulled a few years ago. The old dealer wanted to be more competitive and lose the GM way of thinking that inflated costs for years and soured the customer. They now run as a independant dealer and are still selling and servicing cars.

And some wonder why GM is in the shape their in?

[njsteve]

That reminds me of a similar issue with my 95 K2500 Diesel Suburban. I was giving an ABS dash light. Brought it to the dealer. They said the code was indicated a faulty brake control computer. The dealer gave some ridiculous price to replace it saying that was the only thing that would fix the problem. I said no thank you.

My own mechanic buddy didn't believe the dealer either. After checking on my own at the various diesel and truck websites it turned out it was a faulty speed sensor in the hub, a common problem and that GM only had one code that showed when any number of different ABS faults occurred. It would not specifically say which part was bad - a mechanic had to actually do some checking of the individual parts - something most dealers won't bother doing. So instead of analyzing, the dealers will just find the most expensive part and swap it in...and make the most amount of $$$.

The faulty speed sensor was around $100 instead of $3000. When we went the to get the part at the dealer, the kid at the counter tried to sell us the $1000 hub with the sensor preinstalled in it. I said no thank you and did some more checking and found out that the sensor is sold on its own. The kid was either too dishonest or too lazy to look it up.

[SSJunkie68-69]

Paul....thanks for the link. I'm going to call them when they open up. I see they are offering a lifetime warranty on this part, just need to see what they define as a lifetime. The company has been around for over 25 years. I like how the small guy is willing to stand behind the product better than the big guy as well as offering it a price which is a fraction of what the big guy wants.