Baldwin Motion Documentation

[RVOR]

I am soliciting opinions on the documentation Joel Rosen provides for his cars without original paperwork. I have seen the documentation that he provides which is a short paragraph stating the originality of the car with his signature (without signature guarantee of any sort). With the prices these cars bring, how will this documentation hold up in the future?

[MrMotion]

I beleieve that if you donot have the original paperwork ie: original dealer bill of sale, pop or dealer invoice, original build sheet probabaly impossible to have, and you give Mr. Rosen the Vin he has records to verify that the car was purchased at Baldwin Chevrolet but in the same case the car could have been only a Motion Conversion car but he will have service records verifing that the conversion was done at Motion Performance. Then he would issue, with a fee of course an affidavit.

[rbernat]

RVOR,
GOOD QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION.JOEL BELIEVES THAT ITS THE TIGHT ENFORCEMENT OF DOCUMENTATION THAT KEEPS THESE MOTION CARS SO VALUABLE.ORIGINAL PAPERWORK IS MOST DEFINITELY A PLUS .MANY CARS WERE ORDERED THRU BALDWIN CHEVROLET WITH THE MOTION PERFORMANCE OPTIONS AND WOULD SHOW ON THE DEALER INVOICE AS SO.(THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT JOEL MAY NOT HAVE THIS).IF THE CAR WAS ORDERED THRU MOTION PERFORMANCE THEIR SHOULD BE A MOTION ORDER FORM(INVOICE)I HAVE CARS WHICH WERE ORDERED THRU BOTH CHANNELS AND THE ORIGINAL PAPERWORK IS DIFFERENT.THE STATEMENT ON THE BALDWIN MOTION VERIFICATION FORM STATES THAT THE CAR IN QUESTION WAS DEALER ORDERED THRU BALDWIN CHEV/MOTION PERFORMANCE.NO MORE NO LESS.FORM DOES NOT STATE WHICH PERFORMANCE OPTIONS WERE ORDERED.JOEL USED TO FURNISH PAPERWORK ON PHASE THREE CARS IF ORDERED AS SUCH.I WOULD WATCH OUT FOR B/M CARS CLAIMING TO BE PHASE THREE'S WITHOUT SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS.

[COPO]

As these cars seem to rarely change hands, I am curious of market value opinions for a BM '69 Phase 3 Camaro, Chevelle and the '70-73 2nd Gen. Phase III Camaros. I was watching "Dream Car Garage" on Speedvision and they said a restored Phase 3 '69 Camaro was valued at $150K - $200K. To me that seemed pretty high. Opinions??

[bkhpah]

It's hard to believe that as one of the last living hero's of the supercar era, Rosen does not make himself more available to the public. It seems that almost all that you hear about him is that he is hard to deal with,etc,etc... If he was more open to the public I would have to think that his cars would be worth even more in the collector car market. As it stands they seem to bring strong money, but you can draw more flies with honey than vinegar. I would also think that if he ever attended a Supercar function that he would be a big draw. But again it seems that he wants his palm greased to even think about attending what other people wait all year to do for free. A little self promotion in the Motion arena and I bet his stock would climb. As it stands today, I don't really care..
BKH

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

COPO:
I agree that the $150-$200k figure is quite high, especially factoring in the general lack of cooperation, lack of documentation, and high price of the documentor. I know that a restored '70-'73 Camaro has brought $60-$65k, and that an unrestored '70-'73 has brought approx. $20k. (Both were documented before the '90's 'high dollar' craze). These figures are in line with the '69 Yenko Camaros, on both ends of the condition spectrum.

I also know that the 'documentor' has taken at least one person's money, and never delivered an answer as to the car's authenticity. I also know where he delivered a negative on a car, only to go and buy the car through an agent.

There are many who appreciate the rarity of the Motion cars in general, but would choose not to own one simply due to their appearance, (especially among us 2nd gen. guys). Most agree that the Motion cars are typical of the rude, and overindulgent '70's, and even with the resurgence of retroism, choose to keep our wallets closed and admire them from afar.

This being said, I don't see the '69 Motion cars being valued that much differently than the '70-'73' Motion cars, and certainly not in the $150-$200k range. I am sure someone might pay it at some point, but how many Otis Chandler's are there??

Any dissenters?
Marlin