Gm letter to Suppliers

[Salvatore]

Keith, save your breath. Nobody likes Unions anymore. A thing of the past! Very, very few ever honor picket lines. After the UAW gets dismantled (the last big Union in this country) than we as a Nation can really get back on track with poor healthcare, poor working conditions, no pensions or 401K's that the employer will match and especially a very weak collective barganing structure. If I don't like the color of your hair....your fired! So lets go back to the Forties. Big business has won! That got their tax breaks years ago and instead of rebuilding or building new plants or factories they built overseas. I also blame the Unions for part of that. Now the tide has changed. We all enjoyed our WalMarts and Dollar Store bargains, made pretty good money in the 70's through the late 90's and did not really CARE if we spent our money in our own country. Everybody looked at whats best and the cheapest for them. Well now it is time to pay up. Because of labor problems, Wall Street sell-outs and GREEDY Americans all the money we saved over the last 2 decades with all the Chineese and foreign crap that we imported we will have to pay back the money to this unemployed country probably 2 fold. So as the story goes..."Pay me now or pay me later." Was all those savings from imports, salary give backs, closing factories and white collar crimes worth it? America has lived high on the hog and we ALL took advantage of things one time or another. What comes around goes around! So anybody that is a member of any Union now has lost more rights than any non union worker ever had! I believe the big tidal wave has yet to come for us. The bailout of America. God Bless this nation!

[Keith Tedford]

I know what you are saying Sam. Unions have, to some extent, created their own grief, although, I can count on one hand all the strikes that we had in my 41 years in Oshawa. The British Unions just about crippled England until Margaret Thatcher pretty well wiped them out. A case of unions run amok. If you look at history, I don't think that we ever had much of a middle class like we have developed since the 1930s. In a lot of countries the poor scavenge off of garbage dumps to survive. Unious at least pulled money out of the rich and have created somewhat of a safety net for the destitute and poor. I wouldn't want unions running the country, but I think that they have their place, to a point. The multi-nationals must be rubbing their hands with glee at playing us off against 1.3 billion Chinese slaves. Oh yes, they do pay them a little so that they can't be called slaves. Not much difference. If it is going to be survival of the fittest, it isn't going to be pretty for those of us who aren't fit. Obama has made an awful lot of promises that start sounding like pie in the sky. When he can't produce, I think you may just see his popularity plummet like a rock. Then again, what do I know. At least we were smart enough to get our money out of the stock market a couple of years ago. There, some more wasted breath.

[firstgenaddict]

If the government wouldn't mess with CAFE standards etc and get the hell out of businesses business then we would all be a whole lot better off!

[Keith Tedford]

Now, that's a good point. Up here it is just as bad if not worse. We have a lot where we could build a home more suited to older retired people like we are getting to be. All the hoops that you have to go through just make it not worth the trouble. A friend, who lives in the rich peoples Muskoka cottage country, told me that you will have at least $28K invested in all the hoop jumping before you ever put a shovel in the ground. Now, that has to be way worse than any union ever was.

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
$28K invested in all the hoop jumping before you ever put a shovel in the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]


To build a new papermill in the US on a piece of raw dirt it costs 10 yrs in environmental studies and about 50 mil before you turn a shovel!

[Kim_Howie]

We in Iowa just build it, then get the permits. When they fight you, you tell them you will take them to court for violation of your rights .

[Kim_Howie]

I built a 40x100 garage behind my house. They tried to stop me. I took them to court & won.

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
We in Iowa just build it, then get the permits. When they fight you, you tell them you will take them to court for violation of your rights .

[/ QUOTE ]

My God... you sound just like one of those trial lovin liberal Democrats yellin about their civil rights, and wantin to sue everybody. Geez, you probably got one of those ACLU cards in your pocket.
I'm callin Rush. Your outta the Ditto heads. And where's Kwizz? We know how he likes lawyers.
In keeping with the thread a little, CNN's In the money had a discussion on labor. 10 of the most productive plants in the US, are UAW represented plants. And since the two tiered wage scale system has been approved by the UAW , the difference in wage/benefits/legacy costs is very little.
The issue isn't as much labor as credit availability, and uncertanty about the financial future.
Also, the automakers were qued up to run trucks, SUV's and high dollar high profit models. When gas hit 4 bucks, that market stopped. There was no real leadership towards energy efficient cars, nor any real public demand until the gas crunch. A perfect storm of events it seems.

[kwhizz]

And since the two tiered wage scale system has been approved by the UAW , the difference in wage/benefits/legacy costs is very little.


Common Sense is kicking in..........But.......The Reality is.........The Legacy costs will live on for many years to come.......As it probably should.....as those people worked their lifes under that set of Rules when the Auto Companies were very profitable........Now......What is Fair to them........Tough Call......If the Rules are changed due to the current Economic "Challenges" and the Profit Margins come back in a year or two.....Then What...the newer Hires understand the Rules at the time of their Employment and will have to provide for their future accordingly........What would then be fair to the Retirees...You have to look at this from "BOTH" perspectives......You can't Kill the Patient (G.M...Ford)....or "Keep" things the way they are........Tough Situation........
But.........Don't worry.......Remember....the Politicians know what is "Best" for us "Smelly" Taxpayers and will do the right thing.......

Ken

[Salvatore]

WOW Ken. You are the man! Yes, money dried up and the plants shut down. But lets still blame Labor cause it is easier! If we all worked for $5.00 an hour in this country we could still not compete with the Chinese I bet. When trade between different countries started some 200 years ago, we traded for things we did NOT have like silk, tea, some jewels and so forth. We never traded for things we had like steel, food, medicines etc. We just need to start producing the things we used to do on tighter budgets, a breather from the EPA and stricter trade enforcements. Why import something we can produce or make here? We used to lead the Industrialized Nations in everything! We have to get back on track before they remove the word "factory" from our dictionaries.