Corona Virus Member Discussion

[SBR]

Originally Posted by BJCHEV396

A Chinese official was in Italy and said Italians are not obeying the lockdown and that is why the virus is devastating Italy.You might see lockdown orders in North America.Will we obey it?

One look at the spring break pics makes me believe the answer is no. The curve on the US looks almost like Italys. Not good.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by SBR

One look at the spring break pics makes me believe the answer is no. The curve on the US looks almost like Italys. Not good.

And DeSantis (governor of FL) STILL will not order all FL beaches closed other than in Broward and Palm Beach counties. He has left it to local governments to make their own decisions. So what happened? Panama City says they are open for business! All beaches open! All restaurants and nightly entertainment open! Come to Panama City!

[BJCHEV396]

Unbelievable.

[Tabu]

Originally Posted by 70 copo

Alright Lee,

I simply posted a factual report form the CDC here. You proceeded to snap shot a post I made in the previous thread on this topic and you called me out.

I answered your question Now you simply troll me and move the goal posts.

Ok Lee, you already apologized in the last thread for fear mongering. I could screen shot and post your apology and sudden exit from the previous thread on this topic but I will not.

So you need even more clarification.

Part#1

Why do I think the pandemic will be gone in 60 days? Simple. If you believe the Chinese, they have already returned to full production after the outbreak there and 60 days ago the country was literally on fire with the illness.

If they can do it why in the world would anyone think North America cannot?

I don’t think Lee is fear mongering. Hell, just turn your television on. There’s plenty of that on there. I think Lee is stating facts. Everything that you have stated about the subject, if you read the second or third sentence, you contradict yourself from what you stated in the first sentence.

Pandemic gone in 60 days? Really?? I believe common sense would tell you it’s not going to be over in 60 days. Kudos though for wishful thinking.

If the Chinese have returned to full production after the outbreak why can’t North America? Well, ummm, has the Chinese returned to full production? If we believe what China says, that’s our first mistake, but as to why (if the Chinese have returned to full production as you say) North America will not?? Lack of common sense, that’s why. North America is stalling on total lockdowns across the States and I don’t see the US spraying everything down with bleach as we have seen China do. Actually, all I see is people running around like it’s a normal day, accept for school closings, other closings, oh and the toilet paper shortage. I don’t see a a lot of social distancing going on, but we’ll get there eventually. A little later than most countries, but trust me, we’ll get there after more lives are lost.

Lastly, it appears that you are claiming to state facts that nobody in this whole world seems to know BUT YOU and the fact that you want to argue with people that are clearly stating facts as we know them, as to what we’re being told, is ridiculous. Yes, sincerely much thanks to Lee for doing exactly that.

This world is not getting any better any time soon. It’s time we stand up and work together instead of against each other. I’m afraid that this coronavirus is going to be a huge wake up call to people just like you and others. Unfortunately, a much needed one.

AND one thing that I have learned in my lifetime, “There are those that appear to be much more intelligent when they say nothing at all 70copo!”

Many prayers to you and everyone else during this time. Stay safe!!

[Lee Stewart]

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Lynn:

It is not fair to make any comparisons to other stats. And BTW, you picked a miniscule one. How about: Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. And they still sell cigarettes right.

Stop looking at the mortality rate and concentrate on the rate of those people going into the hospital and those going into ICU. If CV-19 overwhelms our health care system, what about all the other people who need to be hospitalized or placed in ICU? Are doctors going to have to choose who lives and who dies?

Having your lifestyle disrupted so abruptly sucks. I understand that. It sucks for all of us. But it's the price we have to pay to get this pandemic stopped in it's tracks right away. We do not want a repeat of the 1918 Spanish Flu. 675,000 Americans died and we had a population that was more than 3X smaller than it is today. If CV-19 duplicated the Spanish Flu we would see well over 2 million people die here in the US.

It's important not to keep asking "when are we getting there?" This is a 1000 mile trip and we just passed mile marker 50.

Lee:
First off, I don't know that I disagree with any fact you have stated. Secondly, I did not say anything about mortality rates related to COVID-19. And you are correct, I specifically stated that I was only going to mention ONE (in all caps) comparison; and that one is miniscule. I figured the post was long enough without trying to list EVERYTHING we trade for human life and health. There is no direct comparison. I was siimply stating that as a society, we make trade offs for human life and health every day. We just don't THINK about it every day. And we don't want to discuss it, because we don't want to feel that cold. I fully agree with you about cigarettes; but that is a whole other debate for another time.

I am just saying we need to balance things. Let's say you are correct, and we are only 1/20th into this, with nothing to look forward to for another 19 months (apologize if you had a different period of time targeted for your 50 mile mark... but I really don't know) but more of shutting everything down until the whole country is on lock down. Personally, I believe 19 months of lockdown will create more havoc than the havoc it prevented.

I don't have a crystal ball. Is Phil correct when he says it all blows over in 60 days? I don't know. Are you correct in stating we are only 1/20th of the way through? I don't know. You guys both have a right to your opinions. I hope and pray Phil is closer to the mark than you. Just because I WANT it to work out that way doesn't mean it will.

[Steve Shauger]

Let's hope the Singapore and South Korea model and measure which have produced amazing results are replicated everywhere so we drastically shorten and lessen the effects and devastation. My glass is half full.

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Lee:
First off, I don't know that I disagree with any fact you have stated. Secondly, I did not say anything about mortality rates related to COVID-19. And you are correct, I specifically stated that I was only going to mention ONE (in all caps) comparison; and that one is miniscule. I figured the post was long enough without trying to list EVERYTHING we trade for human life and health. There is no direct comparison. I was siimply stating that as a society, we make trade offs for human life and health every day. We just don't THINK about it every day. And we don't want to discuss it, because we don't want to feel that cold. I fully agree with you about cigarettes; but that is a whole other debate for another time.

I am just saying we need to balance things. Let's say you are correct, and we are only 1/20th into this, with nothing to look forward to for another 19 months (apologize if you had a different period of time targeted for your 50 mile mark... but I really don't know) but more of shutting everything down until the whole country is on lock down. Personally, I believe 19 months of lockdown will create more havoc than the havoc it prevented.

I don't have a crystal ball. Is Phil correct when he says it all blows over in 60 days? I don't know. Are you correct in stating we are only 1/20th of the way through? I don't know. You guys both have a right to your opinions. I hope and pray Phil is closer to the mark than you. Just because I WANT it to work out that way doesn't mean it will.

Lynn
When I read your posts I hear a view that has less panic and hysteria in it. We need more of this at every level. The more we use statistics as a weapon to create panic and major uncertainty that is a failure to properly communicate. I do believe in reality to the degree it doesn’t lead to speculation or a stretching of reality. It is clear around the country that we are starting to compete against each other instead of working together by using different forms of data on both sides.
I believe It starts with each of us having a conversation that lends itself toward the future while being realistic as to where we are at and provide reasonable solutions which by the way won’t make EVERYOne happy. We need to think about the majority however harsh that sounds.
I received a panic text today that the number of cases has doubled. I told this person well that makes sense because we are testing more, right? Should I see it that way or sound the alarm there are more reported cases?There will be more cases.

I heard today that next week will be bad for the economy because there will be more people filing for unemployment at record levels. For me that makes sense because business are shut down for others this adds to the panic and hysteria . So what should WE do? Where is the balance?

[Lynn]

I agree Steve; as opposed to Italy, where they apparently had a perfect storm for this.

With only about 60% as many cases as in China, the actual number of deaths EXCEED those in China by about 800. Not doing something right.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Lee:
First off, I don't know that I disagree with any fact you have stated. Secondly, I did not say anything about mortality rates related to COVID-19. And you are correct, I specifically stated that I was only going to mention ONE (in all caps) comparison; and that one is miniscule. I figured the post was long enough without trying to list EVERYTHING we trade for human life and health. There is no direct comparison. I was siimply stating that as a society, we make trade offs for human life and health every day. We just don't THINK about it every day. And we don't want to discuss it, because we don't want to feel that cold. I fully agree with you about cigarettes; but that is a whole other debate for another time.

I choose to get in my car or light up a cigarette. It's my choice alone. I have to accept the responsibility that I might be doing something risky both to my health and my life. Now let's expand that . . . I just walked out of a bar having had 6 hard liquor drinks (BTW - I don't drink at all). I am legally drunk. I tell myself I am OK to drive home. This is a direct comparison to the CV19 pandemic lockdown. I am acting irresponsible. I am not caring about anyone else but me. What I should do (call a taxi or friend) and what I am going to do (drive legally drunk) are two different things. It's as obvious as the nose on our faces which is the right decision.

I am just saying we need to balance things. Let's say you are correct, and we are only 1/20th into this, with nothing to look forward to for another 19 months (apologize if you had a different period of time targeted for your 50 mile mark... but I really don't know) but more of shutting everything down until the whole country is on lock down. Personally, I believe 19 months of lockdown will create more havoc than the havoc it prevented.

We are just getting started on our 1000 mile trip. We are still in first gear. We are crawling along because we can't get enough people tested. The more people that get tested the faster we can shift in to 2nd, 3rd, 4th 5th and 6th. What is scaring everyone and I mean everyone . . . the CDC, WHO, the president, the public, the stock market . . . is the unknown. There are so many things about CV19 that we don't know.

The experts tell us we have no antivirals nor vaccine for CV19. The only way we can stop it is self quarantine. Some people have it and they don't even realize it because they are young and healthy. I am terrified to go out of my home into a public place. I am almost 69 and I have Lymphoma. If I get CV19 I am dead. No question about that.

I don't have a crystal ball. Is Phil correct when he says it all blows over in 60 days? I don't know. Are you correct in stating we are only 1/20th of the way through? I don't know. You guys both have a right to your opinions. I hope and pray Phil is closer to the mark than you. Just because I WANT it to work out that way doesn't mean it will.

I think we are both right. In 60 days we will know pretty much everything there is to know about CV19. This is not a USA problem. This is a WORLD problem. There are literally millions of the best people in medical science working on getting us answers so we know what to do, what we can use to treat CV19 until we get a vaccine which takes 12 months at the earliest.

If the news or the internet is upsetting then shut them off. Go do something else. Like Steve did - go for a ride in your car. Do SOMETHING that you enjoy and will make you happy.