Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?

[Rat_Pack]

Yes, quit buying the reproduction trim tags and protecto plates that are on the market and run these guys out of business. As long as the hobby supports the making of these items then the clones/fakes are going to get better. The government needs to step in as to me there is no way a repro POP should be allowed to be made. It contains the VIN of the vehicle and the last time I checked that was illegal to duplicate anything with the vin. That is why the restoration vendors do not have the little blue decal for the drivers door on 70 and up vehicles that had the vin typed on it. About 12 years ago the fed's confinscated all of the parts suppliers/vendors inventory of those decals and they have not been for sale since. I have heard of some "black market" ones available but they are the wrong color and the lettering is the wrong font...........RatPack...................

[TimG]

I don't think there is any way to stop this stuff. The only way to protect yourself is to do the research on a rare vehicle and contact prior owners. I go back to the 1967 L89 Corvette that a dealer sold last summer. The car was in my name for seven years and I was never contacted about the car. When I saw this car nationally advertised I anticipated a number of calls to me. My phone never rang. Another owner here in Austin was never contacted about the car either.

[CamaroKing]

Paul,You were offered to go see a Factory 69 SS BB in the paint shop and you didn't go but you were able to see the trim tag anyway? WOW how did you do that! The only 69 RS Z28 i saw was a beautiful Lemans Blue one that sold for $31.The Silver ZL1 Clone has not been there for about a Year! It is now in California.As Kurt stated about the L89 Conv you did not know what you were looking for.The only car that i was offered to see was a COPO Tuxedo Black 3 owner car that is being restored.It has a X11 Code.Sonds like your a little deep into your knee deep Projects!

[Muscle Car Jon]

I had seen that L89 Convertible at the Atlantic City Auction too. I asked the owner about the car, since it was such low miles. He stated that he had Future research the car because he was getting many questions about the authenticity of it. They had contacted all the parties that were supposed to have built the car. Not one of them had any information on the car and they made no claims to the vehicle. Is this all rumor then? How far can we go to prove a car is a clone? If the car was a built car, and the shop does not claim to ever have the car, and none of the previous owners know, then where can we go? It just seams to be hearsay or rumors. No one is coming forward to say, "Yes, it was my car, and yes it is a clone." The person who bought the car for $69,500 or what ever the auction sale was, bought it at an auction, which is AS/IS. The actual owner of the car had brought it to the auction to sell it. If the buyer thought he paid "too much" after the fact, then that is his fault and not the fault of the seller. No one forced him to bid that price, he did it under his own will. It is just as if we were buying a car from Ebay with the exception that he actually had seen the car and he felt the car was worth it.

[Jeff H]

But if that L89 conv has a fake protect-o-plate, then isn't that now fraudulent? Then the car is being intentionally misrepresented. I personally think it's a great car that was built really well, but it doesn't appear that it is a genuine L89 car.

[69L89396]

I think the only thing that is fraudulent is having to do with the VIN, be it right or wrong.

I don't really see the goverment getting involved with the details like the drive train in a car as to the POP. It is up to the buyer to find out the facts himself before making a purchase.

As long as all these cars are bringing the kind of money they are demanding from the seller, be prepared to see lots more of this.
I predict we will see allot of more NEW COPO's, and all the big block Camaros come into the market. The buyers are out there whating to purchase these type of cars. As long as they are there, so will be the clones. I predict the clones will get even better as time goes on and make it almost impossable to tell the difference. As the price on these cars increases, it makes it easier to invest the money to make a clone.

The only way to hold this down is to start a VIN list for people to go to.

[Steve Shauger]

Ownership history is a critical piece to determining a cars pedigree. The more research you do, the better the picture you get of the car.
The L89 convert was done very well, and would fool most knowlegeable collectors. I forwarded the information I knew, with the owners name who paid to have the car cloned and of the shop that did the work to Future Classics , but they were unable to verify the information.

I was looking to purchase an L89 coupe a few years ago, but before I made the deal I searched and found the second owner. What was being sold as an original drive train car, was not because the second owner blew a hole in the side of the block in 1977 and replaced it.

[Edited by paceme (03-19-2002 at 04:10 PM).]