1970 gto judge ram air IV

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
Along with many other variations, the only differences between these SD's cars and two 70's we are now talking about seems to be no one has written a book about them

[/ QUOTE ] SD was an entire package to include body parts ,aluminum,engine,rear end,exhaust....produced to win races in both drag racing and Grand National racing...the heavy duty parts produced by Pontiac back then was amazing...it was MUCH more than just an engine....I don't think they ever drilled holes in a GTO frame !!!That book is one of the best to read about the heyday of Pontiac performance.Hard to draw a line between the SD and RA V IMO.

[Steve_Hoog]

I don't think anyone would argue against the SD's being bad to the bone race cars, and very much factory supported. I would love to have one some day, pending winning the lotto.

[GTO_DON]

Isnt it funny that pontiac kept all the records of all the VINS of their super duty cars, but have NO RECORD of any RA V"S MMMMMMMMMMM [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] Let it go! Its getting old.

[mrmuscle]

don, why dont you reply to the question about what cool gto's you have and if i remember right, you stated you had invoices with memo and special equipment on them and steved asked you to post them and you didnt. actually i think most people are enjoying this and it does raise alot of questions. why wouldnt they have put a ra 5 in a car did they build the engine and leave it on a stand only??? i hardly think so. remember these were delivered to him to drag race and maybe werent intended to sell to the public. how many experimental cars are out in the public and werent supposed to ever be sold. anyone who was around back in the 60's and early 70's and followed drag racing knew all about knafel's lethal pontiacs and knew that pontiac motor divisions engineering dept were behind him on anything he wanted. why is it that nobody wants mr knafel to have any acknowledgment on his accomplishments and working relationship with pontiac???? i guess i would suggest to you don that if you dont like it go to another chat topic and leave this one.

[olredalert]

Mr.Muscle,

-----You appear to have 6 posts here and virtually no info about yourself either.At least Don has told us his name.I dont think that Im speaking out of turn here when I say that both you and Don are welcomed here by all of us.Im not throwing stones at you or Don,but maybe you should take this private if you have some sort of beef with him!.......Bill S

[mrmuscle]

i have no beef with him at all. it just seems like he continues to try to get this discussion stopped and i know by the number of hits on this that people are enjoying it.

[GTO_DON]

MR MUSCLE I DONT HAVE TO SHARE WHAT CARS I HAVE WITH ANYBODY! LIKE THE OTHER POST SAID, ATLEAST PEOPLE KNOW WHO I AM! YOU DONT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOURSELF! WHY DONT YOU TELL ME WHAT CARS YOU HAVE? IM NOT TRYING TO BE SMART,AND I HAVE THE UPMOST RESPECT FOR ALOT OF THE MEMBERS ON THIS SIGHT. [GOD KNOWS ID LOVE TO OWN ONE OF THE SUPERCARS SOME OF YOU HAVE,BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE,WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JIM MATTISON,NOBODY ON THIS SIGHT HAS OWNED MORE GTO'S OR KNOWS MORE ABOUT THESE CARS! IVE JUNKED MORE JUDGES THAN MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN. IVE MADE IT MY LIFE WITH THESE CARS. I HAVE A PASSION FOR THEM. IVE HAD MY SHARE OF OTHER HIGH END CARS TOO! LIKE A 65 Z16,LS-6,L78'S 427 GALAXIES AND HEMI'S AND JUST SOLD A SD CATALINA. I CAN BE A GOOD FRIEND HERE AND DONT MIND SHARING ANY KNOWLEDGE WITH ANYBODY. I AGREE WITH MIKE THAT NEVER SAY NEVER BUT ITS TIME TO BE STRAIGHT. I DONT BELIEVE THAT CAR IS A REAL RA V CAR! IF IS IS LETS BRING IT OUT AND DOCUMENT IT! AND NOT WITH A BLURRY PIC LIKE THAT ONE. LOOKS LIKE HE TOOK IT WITHOUT PERMISSION. FOR THE RECORD I WISH THE CAR WAS REAL! BUT SOMEHOW IM THINKING THAT MONEY IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS ISSUE. MAYBE SOMEBODY WANTS TO CASH IN! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]I WILL POST THE INVOICE WITH MEMO ON IT, AND THE CAR IS NOT FROM KNAFLE! IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY THERES DIFFERENT NUMBERS NEXT TO MEMO. IF SOMEBODY EVER DECODES WHAT MEMO MEANS I THINK ALOT OF YOU WILL BE SURPRISED. HELP ME OUT WITH THIS JIM! EVERBODY IS A EXPERT!!!

[Steve_Hoog]

Don

I'm not really sure what your going on about, but I'll leave that between you and Mr. Muscle please.

As for the cash in comment, I don't own the car, what would it benefit me in monetary value to prove this? I acknowledged what this means to me in a previous post, there is nothing in it about money. The actual owner is just like me in repect to ownership of personal cars, they will be with us as long as we are alive. I still own the very first GTO I bought in 79, and he still owns his first car. Along with others on both our parts, this Judge is no exception to him. His kids may sell it after he's dead, but he won't. And the car couldn't have a better home, he will take the best of care with it. And more importantly.... I somewhat put my friendship at risk bringing the car to a public light, he would have assumed no one ever known about.

And what you getting on to Astock about his pic for? From what I understand he was just scouting the car for purchase, not setting up for a professional photo shoot.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I don't mean to disagree with my good friend Belair, but, some clarification is warrented.The Super Duty cars didn't all have aluminum body parts, and there were a relatively large number made. Sure, the "Swiss Cheese" cars [13 I think?] were very special, but, there were lots of 62 & 63 Super Dutys built for street use. I found the quote about a RA IV SD motor very interesting because that is what the Tin Indian has in it, a RAV block, etc., and RAIV Heads. So, maybe there is a correlation between the early SDs and the later "SD's". Both of the RA IV cars I have were built by Pontiac with all the weight saving deletions possible. They were built specifically for racing, and that's all they did.

[MotownMadman]

Sixties M,
With you owning some rare vintage Pontiac examples you have probably studied the Poncho's more then most here, what do you think about this particular car in question, out the factory door new with the IV or V engine? How could it have been installed and distributed off GM property when the engine wasnt cleared under Federal emission standards? Would not the build sheet refer to the V engine with more then just "Memo"? Without actual documentation as to the engine being installed arent we all chasing our tail in a round room having no way to prove or disprove the build? This has turned into a very long yet informative thread, without factual evidence can this really be determined? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]