Fake Trim Tag?

[ohhawk]

Certainly things that cause suspicion but I wouldn't rule it out as the real thing myself. I'd want to see that buildsheet. Other things that aren't correct only tells me that the restoration wasn't totally correct. Not everyone tries to make them totally correct.

As far as the trim tag rivets I wouldn't say they look that out of place......

http://classicauto-sales.com/zoom.php?car=187&pic=5

[Lynn]

Check this out. Mark C. did speak up, but on TC forum. Unbelievably someone swapped a fake X33 tag onto a car that had a real X77 tag. Car used to be Glacier Blue. Engine is also a restamp according to Mark.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86575

Many thanks to Mark and all the other guys who have been tracking tags and VINS.

[Steve Shauger]

Yes the engine restamp is another poor attempt to deceive unsuspecting buyers. The stories the sellers come up with are real winners.

[jbsides]

Won't eBay be participating in a fradulent auction by accepting fees from the sale of this bogus car? Isn't there any liability on eBay's part if they do so? Can't they get sued when the lawsuits start flying after the unwary winning bidder concludes he has been taken?
I know there are lawyers who are members of this board. Someone is going to be awful upset they spread out that much dough for something this misrepresented.
Nice looking car, though. I'm surprised noone has brought up the non original shiny new valve covers yet.

JB

[jbsides]

Maybe I missed it, but were there any casting dates noted for those 041 heads? Even with the extended production, I have never heard of them used on a '69 Z, and I don't recall seeing any on a 70 1/2 Z either.

JB

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Won't eBay be participating in a fradulent auction by accepting fees from the sale of this bogus car? Isn't there any liability on eBay's part if they do so? Can't they get sued when the lawsuits start flying after the unwary winning bidder concludes he has been taken?
I know there are lawyers who are members of this board. Someone is going to be awful upset they spread out that much dough for something this misrepresented.
Nice looking car, though. I'm surprised noone has brought up the non original shiny new valve covers yet.

JB

[/ QUOTE ]

Who says it is fake?

You see JB, it may very well be but the problem is that you must prove it is fake. In order to do that, you will have to do it in a court of law. The burden of proof will be on you, not the seller. Whoever gets this car will have to tear it apart to find some incriminating evidence as well as do a previous owner search and get sworn affidavits from them as to what the car was in the past. Right now, this seller may be guilty of having a fake trim tag and a re-stamped block but it is possible that this car can be real.

Do I think it is real? Hell no! Can I prove it is not real? No I can't.

Thinking of buying a muscle car? Previous owner history, previous owner history, previous owner history...........

I say this is more important than docs!

[jbsides]

You asked who said it is fake? I didn't.

Bogus, misrepresented, yes, but I did not say "fake." Point is, when and if the buyer does discover the car is not what he thought he was buying, the chances of him sueing everyone is good.

Whether or not he can proove it in a court of law is something else.

JB

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Bogus, misrepresented, yes, but I did not say "fake."

[/ QUOTE ]

Semantics, semantics.........

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Won't eBay be participating in a fradulent auction by accepting fees from the sale of this bogus car? Isn't there any liability on eBay's part if they do so? Can't they get sued when the lawsuits start flying after the unwary winning bidder concludes he has been taken?
I know there are lawyers who are members of this board. Someone is going to be awful upset they spread out that much dough for something this misrepresented.
Nice looking car, though. I'm surprised noone has brought up the non original shiny new valve covers yet.

JB

[/ QUOTE ]

JB:

At this point, I don't see any liability on the part of Ebay, unless they have been put on notice that this car has a fake tag and a restamped motor.

I can tell you what usually happens when the "unwary winning bidder concludes he has been taken". He has his lawyer contact the seller, who then offers a full refund, because he doesn't want to defend a lawsuit. Seller then turns around and sells the car to another "unwary" buyer. Especially in times like these, when the cars are escalating in value by the week. Seller may actually make more the second time around.

As far as being able to prove fraud in this case "in a court of law", well, I don't see much problem proving that, especially if Mark C. has a photo of the previous tag. Read his post on Team Camaro. The only question is: who swapped it? That won't be that hard to find out. Even though owner history records are not available to the general public, an attorney can get them very easily as long as it is being accessed in connection with a pending suit or for "investigation in anticipation of litigation".

Not to change the subject, but I think ebay is exposing itself to litigation IF someone buys a car with a trim tag (either real or fake) that was purchased on ebay. I believe plenty of folks have complained to ebay about selling trim tags, and the possibility of them being used for fraudulent purposes. But then, I am shocked that there haven't been a flurry of lawsuits against trimtags.com for this very reason. Trimtags.com knows exactly what most of its customers are doing with fake tags.

Just my opinion.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]


I can tell you what usually happens when the "unwary winning bidder concludes he has been taken". He has his lawyer contact the seller, who then offers a full refund, because he doesn't want to defend a lawsuit. Seller then turns around and sells the car to another "unwary" buyer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, buyer realizes he's been had once he gets the car home and then desides to wait a few months to pawn the car off on another Ebay sucker. We've seen that a few times on this board!

[ QUOTE ]

Not to change the subject, but I think ebay is exposing itself to litigation IF someone buys a car with a trim tag (either real or fake) that was purchased on ebay. I believe plenty of folks have complained to ebay about selling trim tags, and the possibility of them being used for fraudulent purposes.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't checked in a while but I am sure the contract everyone agrees to when becoming an Ebay member takes care of any liability issues on the part of Ebay when fraud occurs on their web site. Besides, they have more money than anyone here to throw at lawyers until you are drowning in legal costs.