#13 is lucky if you are a Camaro Engineering Pilot

[70 copo]

Jon,

Yes I am aware of the threads from 04 and 15. Just wanted to see if you had found any additional info since. Fair enough-back to regularly scheduled programming. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

[70 copo]

Here is the document and owner history files that came with the car. This will take several hours to review.

[Verne_Frantz]

Phil,
I'm confused why you'd call this car both a Pilot AND a Prototype. Those two kinds of cars were vastly different, with a prototype having mostly hand made parts, while the pilot cars were intended to have production parts on them for test fitting and to write assembly instructions from them. To save costs, some pilot cars were first built one way, then taken apart and rebuilt with other options.
Prototypes were never assigned VINs as far as I know.

Verne

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil,
I'm confused why you'd call this car both a Pilot AND a Prototype. Those two kinds of cars were vastly different, with a prototype having mostly hand made parts, while the pilot cars were intended to have production parts on them for test fitting and to write assembly instructions from them. To save costs, some pilot cars were first built one way, then taken apart and rebuilt with other options.
Prototypes were never assigned VINs as far as I know.

Verne </div></div>


Verne,

That's a good question so lets get to it... at the risk of splitting hairs lets see what the Merriam-Webster Dictionary says about &quot;prototype&quot;first...

Full Definition of prototype:

1. An original model on which something is patterned
2. An individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type
3. A standard or typical example
4. A first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction

In each of the 4 applications above the term &quot;Prototype&quot; is exactly correct when referring to the Norwood Camaro pilots.

There will always be debate on some issues and the pilot function at Norwood is no different, however when the you understand and accept the fact that in the context of assembly line element proofing, RPO time validation, and AIM finalization the pilot Program as it functioned at Norwood in the spring of 1966 was at the plant level also assembly line prototype work right down to the term &quot;Hand Made&quot; found on many of the early sheet metal parts.

There is an excellent article that appeared in MCR recently where Pilot Car Registry clarified this matter in detail.

Please have a look here: http://pilotcarregistry.com/assets/m...dition0002.jpg

[Verne_Frantz]

Phil,
I certainly don't want to start a argument but since Chevrolet used both terms, it stands to reason that they each had their own meaning (regardless of Webster) and were applied to different kinds of cars. I'll go by the information I received by someone who was there both as an engineer and manager at that time.

Verne

[bergy]

Bob Lund was a bean counter that came up through sales &amp; marketing - not surprised pilot &amp; prototype got mixed up.

[70 copo]

Verne,

There is zero Sarcasm here just supported facts. Fair enough.... You go with your guy who has an opinion and he may be correct for another facility/Plant. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

In this specific discussion I will go with the guys who built XP-836 and the Pilot group coordinator for Norwood.

The coordinator was James Seim who worked out of Norwood starting in 1950's and was reassigned to Flint starting in 1965 specifically to coordinate the XP-836 launch and the spring 1966 build at Norwood.

Make no mistake, these guys used the term Pilot and Prototype interchangeably when speaking about this activity which was all new for Norwood and for GM as the building of &quot;Pilots&quot; and &quot;assembly line prototypes&quot; was sent to the Prime assembly plant in a significant group for the first time.

[JoeC]

nice to see the #13 Camaro has survived

Is it shown in any of the vintage GM film such as the 1967 Camaro Jam Handy Films on YouTube?

[70 copo]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nice to see the #13 Camaro has survived

Is it shown in any of the vintage GM film such as the 1967 Camaro Jam Handy Films on YouTube? </div></div>

Joe,

Not GM... but we feel strongly that it made a photo shoot at Milford Proving Ground along with a Blue coupe. After looking at the destinations of the other potentials including usage and ship to locations we then evaluated, 20, 27 or 31 as possibilities.

We settled solidly on #13 for this photo with a simple hubcap/bumperette switch made prior to the photo shoot. #13 was in the right place at the right time the Pilot book destination matches and the option content fits perfectly.

[cook_dw]

If you have never been in the R&amp;D thru manufacturing/production industry then it is hard to understand how the terms are used and interchanged.. Being in this industry my entire career it is understandable how the terms where used at the same time and mean the same.