Judging..

[Tommy_Mathison]

Where's the best(most comprehensive) place/show to have your first gen. Camaro judged? Camaro Nationals? Thoughts or opinions??

Tommy M.

[Steve Shauger]

The camaro nationals has the most comprehensive judging programs, from concours to wash and shine. Expect to see the over 700 camaros and is recognized as the premier camaro show. Check out the ACA website for more info: www.americancamaro.org

[Tommy_Mathison]

Any idea what the ICC Red White, & Blue Certification program is? Jerry Macneish talks about it on his website http://www.z28camaro.com/company.html

Tommy M

[Steve Shauger]

The legend program is a top level concours judging program and includes Brian H., Jerry M.,Larry C., Brad M. and Rich F. This program as well as the others continue to evolve and improve. Again check out the website. There is also a second gen legend program as well.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Any idea what the ICC Red White, & Blue Certification program is? Jerry Macneish talks about it on his website http://www.z28camaro.com/company.html

Tommy M

[/ QUOTE ]

The ICC judging program ended in 1997. The ACA was started in 1998 and hence the Camaro Nationals @ Carlisle.

[farone]

Too bad that there are no written guidelines, and it depends on who restored your car as to how well it does.... I personally know of two ocasions where the scores were added wrong and they were kept out of "gold" the first time out.... There were no amends made. It's as political as any other competition. Too bad that there is nowhere that a Camaro can be judged for how good that it actually is, and not who it belongs to or who did the restoration. Just my $.02...

[Steve Shauger]

I hear ya Frank. We are presently working (collectively) on a judging manual. Hopefully when done a guideline manual for owners/restorer will reduce the subjectivity from judging.

Also if you have/had specific information regarding an adding error on a score sheet, did you notify the ACA (Bud). They will reconcile/ mediate issues such as that.

[Keith Tedford]

Judging can be one thankless job. For sure, there are poor/bad judges that make it bad for the good ones. Restorers being judges can be a two edged sword. They probably know more about a give car/model that anyone else but people may also see them as being in conflict of interest. Right or wrong people do have their opinions. One thing that really riles people is when a winner goes up to get his trophy and is on a buddy buddy first name basis with the show organizers. People just automatically jump to conclusions about how the guy won his trophy. For the most part, the judges do know the top cars and people involved in the shows. The world is not that big. My sister very successfully showed and judged farm animals for many years. She's sure that she often won based on her reputation and who she was rather than the quality of the stock shown. Many judges are afraid or intimidated and don't want to knock her down a notch or two. Might make them look bad. She knew which animals in the show were the best. Judging has all but ruined some breeds of dogs because judges want to see certain characteristics which are in reality a real health problem. Ask a vet about this. Similar problems can and do show up in judging cars. A judging manual for each car would be a good step. At least there would be a level playing field. Secondly, the judge should always have to explain the order of his picks. All facts. No opinions. I've seen and heard about so many hissy fits because someone didn't win that I would rather just get in the car and go for a nice Sunday drive. More relaxing.

[mudjnky]

Is there anything similar to NCRS for Camaros?

[buds396]

Frank, you and I have talked several times about Legends Judging but this is the first time I'm hereing about problems/questions with scoring. It maybe or may not be too late to look into the scoring. If it did occur I apologize on behalf of the ACA to all parties involved. There have been times when an owner feels he should have received a higher score that's natural. I have tried to resolve those situtations.

As Steve stated Legends and Vintage are working on guildlines for the classes. We hope to have these ready for this years show. I'm sure it will be a year or two until they are finalized and in good working order. We will be doing the same thing for Bow Tie Class. At York last July I got beat up pretty good. I appreciated all of the information that was shared. I hope some of things taking place for 2007 will address many of those concerns.

As in the past I'm always available to discuss problems or concerns with the show.

Bud Scolastico
American Camaro Association