1969 NOVA SS L-89 ONE OF 311 UNRESTORED ORIGINAL - Page 14

Denis · #**131** 10-13-2006, 04:43 AM

311 L-89 Camaros is pretty much accepted gospel per the Camaro reference books over at least the past twenty years. Here are actual page scans from four such books:

Big Book of Camaro Data 1967-1973 (1995) - Page 47
by John Hooper:

Camaro (2002) - Page 55
by Steve Statham:

Gm Muscle Cars (2002) - Page 50
by William G Holder, Phillip Kunz:

Camaro - (1995) Page 40
by William Holder, Phillip Kunz, Phil Kurz:

What might explain the L89 Nova confusion is the excerpt below wherein the authors apparently confused Camaro numbers for Nova numbers:

Super Chevy's Nova Handbook: Restoration and Performance for 1963-1967 Chevy Novas (2000) - Page 10
by Super Chevy Magazine Editors:

**Steve Shauger** · #**132** 10-13-2006, 04:46 AM

The 272# for 1968 and 311# for 1969 was exclusive to the Camaro.

**427king** · #**133** 10-13-2006, 05:22 AM

Whats odd is that the 69 camaro and nova shared the same engine HP code suffix [JH JJ for example is 375HP for both cars]. Im not aware of any other cars being like that. Probably why some have assumed there were combined production #s ?

JIM · #**134** 10-13-2006, 10:45 PM

In Ralphs defense, I have known Him personally for years, His Ford and AMC collection is concourse with one of the Finest R-code 69's in the world!!!. The information in printed matter is confusing to those not familar with the Bowtie especially with the 69 L-78 production as it lumps the total units produced. This is also true of the 70 model year for the L-78. I don't know how this car was rep'd to Him. I have never seen this car in person to check it out , I completed the sale of his aquiring a Hemi car last Year and He is straight up , on this matter just misdirected by another one of those supposed experts whose mother's, cousins brothers neighbor had one just like it. This site I beleive is to help those who don't know learn and gain knowledge from those who do. At times I see it as a Belittling to Newbies and Novices which just sours the Hobby, Its Ok to have Fun but there is a line that we shouldn't cross. Jim

**Stefano** · #**135** 10-13-2006, 10:57 PM

Jim,
You have me confused, which can be easy to do? 1970 Camaro and Nova L78 production is separate?

**YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY** · #**136** 10-13-2006, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In Ralphs defense, I have known Him personally for years, His Ford and AMC collection is concourse with one of the Finest R-code 69's in the world!!!. The information in printed matter is confusing to those not familar with the Bowtie especially with the 69 L-78 production as it lumps the total units produced. This is also true of the 70 model year for the L-78. I don't know how this car was rep'd to Him. I have never seen this car in person to check it out , I completed the sale of his aquiring a Hemi car last Year and He is straight up , on this matter just misdirected by another one of those supposed experts whose mother's, cousins brothers neighbor had one just like it. This site I beleive is to help those who don't know learn and gain knowledge from those who do. At times I see it as a Belittling to Newbies and Novices which just sours the Hobby, Its Ok to have Fun but there is a line that we shouldn't cross. Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

All it takes is a few pics to answer the questions that have been asked several times. Nobody is judging Ralph's character here, just the claims about the car....

**1967Z28** · #**137** 10-14-2006, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Think of it like this-- When you dealer ordered your headers for the Z/28, did they give you the exhaust manifolds? Nope.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to get off on a tangent but the above is not a true statement. A '67 or '68 Z-28 that was ordered with factory supplied headers, would have had both the exhaust manifolds and the headers supplied with the car. The manifolds would have been installed on the engine and it was up to the owner or dealership to install the headers themselves. I bought my green '67 Z from the original owner and it was ordered with the headers and the owner verified that he had the headers installed and he gave me the original manifolds and section of exhaust pipe which was removed to make way for the headers. They were like brand new. The original window sticker verified the car was a RPO Z28BD, which was a factory header and cowl plenum car. Both air cleaners also came with the car. The chrome open element one on the engine and the cowl plenum stuff in the box. No malice intended here. Just setting the record straight.

-Jon

**SS427** · #**138** 10-14-2006, 12:07 AM

As I said earlier,

[ QUOTE ]
"Lighten up. Most people that have reacted the way you have would have been blown off of here a long time ago. These guys are really only trying to help you out and/or are just interested in finding out the information. By now 2/3rds the muscle car community knows of this car and this sort of publicity is not doing you OR your car any good."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"Moral of the story, the guys here are trying to help you NOT bad mouth you but you are not giving them much of a chance."

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,
I do not believe anyone here is responding to Ralph "just to have fun". They have all been for the most part very sincere in trying to answer a few questions. The difference is when some of them (ask) the question it goes unanswered. Two things I have learned about this site. If you do not give

you will not get

back but rather very thorough and genuine information. The second thing is if you come on board with an attitude, you will likely no go very far and from what I have seen it really does not matter who you are regardless of how long you have been here, how much you own or how financially secure you are. People seem to treat others at face value. I don't think people purposely try to "belittle Newbies or Novices" but when someone comes on board with an attitude that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it is destined for failure.

That being said, they (the people with expertise) have only tried to help Ralph get to the bottom of his car and it's heritage and help him word the add in such a way that would have helped him sell the car not hurt it. Quite honestly knowing some of the guys that are experts on the Nova on this site and knowing their personality, I am very surprised that Ralph was not flamed out, tared and feathered from the get go. They are only trying to help!

Maybe it is just me but a lot of people seem to always be looking for an argument or a fight. When you look the other way and still try to help them it only makes them try harder to cause controversy. Read back on many of the threads here by some of the people that are no longer here and you will see what I mean. On the other hand we have also lost some very good people due to some being too harsh so it has to be a two way street.

Anyone who knows me know that I do not like controversy and try to get along with anyone and everyone but enough is enough!

Rick

**Late BrakeU2** · #**139** 10-14-2006, 12:20 AM

Have to agree here,ample time was given for damage control but the low road was chosen instead.Credibility on this car diminished propotionate to the longer the requested info was not made available.Moderators showed extreme constraint IMO.

**Steve Shauger** · #**140** 10-14-2006, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think of it like this-- When you dealer ordered your headers for the Z/28, did they give you the exhaust manifolds? Nope.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to get off on a tangent but the above is not a true statement. A '67 or '68 Z-28 that was ordered with factory supplied headers, would have had both the exhaust manifolds and the headers supplied with the car. The manifolds would have been installed on the engine and it was up to the owner or dealership to install the headers themselves. I bought my green '67 Z from the original owner and it was ordered with the headers and the owner verified that he had the headers installed and he gave me the original manifolds and section of exhaust pipe which was removed to make way for the headers. They were like brand new. The original window sticker verified the car was a RPO Z28BD, which was a factory header and cowl plenum car. Both air cleaners also came with the car. The chrome open element one on the engine and the cowl plenum stuff in the box. No malice intended here. Just setting the record straight.

-Jon

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew you or Zedder were going to set him straight.

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