1970 gto judge ram air IV - Page 18

**tjs44** · #**171** 11-13-2003, 07:22 PM

guys I new here and have to jump in on the V post.I deal in early SD and RA V stuff.I have a couple SD clone cars,one of which was in the Nov.PHR mag.Have pictures of my early car in Petes book,been around the pontiac thing since 62.I have a 69 T/A with the only RA V alu block motor running in a car,it was on PHR TV.Facts,the factory built 100 400 RA V crate motors,they came without exhaust manifolds.They made 303 motors also but were very rare.The most rare part for ANY RAV project was factory exhaust.There is a pic in Petes book of a set on the Purely PMD GTO,said to be the only set made.I have a set for the T/A.The motor was never approved for smog so the factory would have NEVER installed one as the fine was great.There were lots of dealer installed engines.FYI,Tom

mrmuscle · #**172** 11-13-2003, 07:30 PM

it still amazes me that a few of you are hanging up on the smog certification. these cars were sent to knafel to race. i again ask someone to answer the question do you think they built an engine like the ra 5 and never installed it in a car to test it???? surely nobody is that closed minded.

**tjs44** · #**173** 11-13-2003, 07:56 PM

im sure they were put in test cars but never sent to a dealer with the engine,EVEN for racing.The fine was just too big.

Steve_Hoog · #**174** 11-13-2003, 08:03 PM

Yeah, and just how big was the fine?

Your view is speculation, would you not agree?

**tjs44** · #**175** 11-13-2003, 08:25 PM

yes,as YOURS!

Jeff Murphy · #**176** 11-13-2003, 08:27 PM

FYI This is now the 12th most viewed and 5th most replied to post in the history of the board!

Keep it going guys you've already blown by the infamous Douglass*Yenko discussion in terms of posts and are right on its heels for views. Still a long way to go to beat the 288 posts and 9210 views in for the 70 Yenko Deuce discussion in Supercars & Musclecars Wanted thread. Or the 9380 views Jim Mattison's research has garnered in COPO - U.S.A.

It's a long way off, but as you guys keep saying "never say never". [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Steve_Hoog · #**177** 11-13-2003, 08:46 PM

Some fact and some speculation, and I have tried to be clear between the two. Along with the help of the owner, I have attached more files than anyone to help the discussion. And aside from the one 1973 magazine article, no one has posted documentation supporting it didn't happen.

I am still curious if you know what the fines would have been, probably more important some type of sanctions? Or does anyone out there have a clue?

skierkaj · #**178** 11-13-2003, 08:56 PM

Whether or not anyone is "right" is their own opinion. In my opinion, If there were any RA V cars, They had to be put into a street car at some point, and I think most people would agree that you can't really find the overall performance of an engine without it being in the car. The car limits the engine (steering, cornering, etc.). Who's to say that the engines were taken out after testing? If GM could get away with putting the engine in a couple of the Judges, Firebirds etc., why wouldn't they? It's all about the consumer, not the Govt. Just exactly how big was the fine for a non-smog-legal car? Maybe it would've been worth it. Think of the price of those cars! I'm sure no RA V would've been cheap, and GM could've paid off the Govt. for their "fine" with the profit from the car. And who's to say that there wasn't some Govt. conspiracy where they let GM put the RA V in a couple of cars? What would the Govt. care if there were a few cars that weren't exactly legal? Pay them enough money and they'll keep their trap shut.

Just trying to push some buttons; add more fuel to the fire! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

mrmuscle · #**179** 11-13-2003, 09:17 PM

i think the fact that they were delivered to knafel to race would probably clear them to the point that they could kiss some rear and play it off as a misunderstanding between the dealer and engineering dept. probably can someones job that wasnt all that important and make it look like they really came down on this misbehavior.

again, i dont think most people realize how important that knafel pontiac was to pontiac racing back then. anyone around drag racing knew about the tin indian cars and always knew they were not any normal race car.

hey sixtiesmuscle, how did you come about that tin indian of yours? did you know anything about this controversy then? what explanation if any was ever given about the memo special equipment?

**Born30YrsLate** · #**180** 11-13-2003, 09:21 PM

Ask Joel Rosen about fines and how "easy" it is for the gov't to let cars slide.....the gov't is the one that shut him down in the early/mid 70's...I'm sure that pontiac would have had no problems paying the fines, but some the people making the decision to let these cars through may have valued their job as well...companies really don't like it when you cost them money - they hire you to make money for them....just another person's point of view.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img]

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