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#21
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We have a very small Sunoco gas station here in town, owned by a Retired Hot Rodder I'm told, only works on vintage cars and sells nothing but Sunoco Unleaded Race Fuels at the pump, last time I checked, 100 Oct Unleaded was about $10/gal. Can get AvGAs for around $6.75-7/gal
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70 L78 Nova Fathom Blue,Bench, 4spd, F41, 3:55 71 Porsche 911 Targa |
#22
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$10 a gallon is not bad. I pay 24 a gallon for 50:1 2cycle premix so I would love to have that gas station near me
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#23
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I used 100LL in my 69 L72 Bel Air last year exclusively with no issues. Maybe a splash of 93 here or there, but at least 90% straight 100LL at any time. Was almost half the price of VP110 and seemed to do just fine. Plan to use it again this summer and as many summers as I can still get it.
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Joe Barr |
The Following User Says Thank You to camarojoe For This Useful Post: | ||
scuncio (01-07-2023) |
#24
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I went back to the Sunoco Station that sells 100 Octane put five gallons in my car that had a little bit of 93/AG left. The 100 Octane Sunoco was $9 per gallon car ran well.
The AG is $6.75 per gallon as I recall. I am going to confirm a clean can get five more gallons of AG and run that just to confirm it runs well in my car at sea level.
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65 Corvette Coupe L78 67 427/390 Vette Coupe unrestored 67 L-79 Vette roadster (Top Flight) 69 L71 Roadster Survivor 69 L46 Roadster Survivor (Sold) 69 Z/28 RS 69 Dodge Charger R/T 70 W30 442 Auto Air Survivor 2016 Z06 Coupe M7 70 AAR Cuda (Sold) 69 L78 Chevelle |
#25
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I run the 100 LL in my Z with no issues. I've been told to add a bit of Mystery Oil
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1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold) 1969 Garnet Red Z28 1969 Super Bee (Sold) 1965 Pontiac Lemans |
#26
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I have tried the Mystery Oil and it seems like my carburetor doesn't like it. Maybe I was using too much oil. What ratio do you use?
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#27
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Approximately 2oz to a tank. I also have good luck with the Tetraethyl Lead additive.
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1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold) 1969 Garnet Red Z28 1969 Super Bee (Sold) 1965 Pontiac Lemans |
#28
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Octane Supreme from Wild Bill's
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1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold) 1969 Garnet Red Z28 1969 Super Bee (Sold) 1965 Pontiac Lemans |
#29
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Although the AvGas solves the octane problem for me, one of the other primary reasons I use it is to avoid the ethanol, the stuff just disintegrates and is so destructive to vintage fuel systems
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70 L78 Nova Fathom Blue,Bench, 4spd, F41, 3:55 71 Porsche 911 Targa |
#30
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Here is some good reading on av gas and octane requirements/ratings.
From another forum: VeryFastVeryFast Well-Known Member JoinedMay 14, 2006 Posts263 RDC Crypto106 LocationArizona & Puerto Vallarta, MX Websitewww.RRMarkets.com Aug 6, 2008 #15 Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas... My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's. Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not The Science™, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need. In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66. The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco. AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106. AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT. I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines. Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly. Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber. You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines. The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's. AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws. Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly. AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter. Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available. Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance. Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber. I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course. Good Luck, Steve Poole Also: https://warteraviation.com/wp-conten...VGAS-100LL.pdf And: https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Octane.htm Bob |
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