Top Day 2 Musclecars?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: napa68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. Frankly, it opens up a whole new subject to the FAST and Pure Stock racing. Im going to sit back and read.

I know of a 68 Camaro that fits this [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] </div></div>

FAST is a bit of a stretch, if you ask me. It's interesting, but not really representative of what you would have seen on the streets. I think it's also quite expensive, if you want to be competitive.

Pure Stock Drags, in my opinion, are quite relevant in the &quot;what was the fastest showroom stock musclecar&quot; discussion; Day 2 would just be an evolutionary step. Would be neat to have Pure Stock Drags on a Saturday and then race the same cars in Day 2 trim on a Sunday.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the &quot;First Period&quot; a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a &quot; Stocker&quot; outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a &quot;Second Period&quot; missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into &quot; Third Period&quot; glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, &quot;period correct&quot; aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What &quot;phase&quot; of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

BIG </div></div>

Excellent comments. I think Day 2 is limited to basic bolt-on mods. Probably better if you have a cutoff for all mods at 1971 or so, as mentioned earlier. That way, the 65 Chevelle Z16 can race the 69 Chevelle L78 and have more of an apples to apples comparison.

I think this has merit as an actual racing class, but for that to be feasible, you need to keep the rules simple, reasonable, fair, and somewhat easy to enforce. Hence the limit on the more in-depth modifications.

Thanks

Scott

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, &quot;period correct&quot; aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What &quot;phase&quot; of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

BIG </div></div>

Hard to bottle it all up, but if you could create a compitition similar to what was happening in an unclassified way on the streets of the USA during the Muscle Car era- that would be magical. Fastest Street Car Shoot-Out circa 1969! </div></div>

You nailed it. That's the basic premise.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shouldn't we look at cars that were built by the factory to be Day 2 cars?

Not everything in the showroom ran well stock. Boss 429 comes to mind. What else?

- 1968-69 W30
- 1970 W30 4-speed
- 1968-70 W31?????

Do you agree with the above? What else would you add?

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Boss '9 cars are interesting, aren't they? I don't think they would be super competitive in this format. Cam and exhaust would help, but I don't know if they have enough hp to overcome all the weight on the front end.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 cents worth. Being from the 60s/70's the biggest issues for winning street races was getting traction, and breathing. A L78 Nova with factory E70 tires from the factory would be dead meat running a stock 340 duster/cuda with L60's and a good gear. Cam changes, and motor internals usually happened after you got your ass handed to you by some dick wad mouth runner. It was a natural progression like Big said. Day 2 started with the big three. Headers, Big meats and wheels, and slapper bars. The rest depended on your testosterone level, money, and traffic arrest record.

I do miss those days. </div></div>

Excellent comments. That would be real easy if you wanted something that really complements the PS cars and allows owners to change to Day 2 format in an hour or two.

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

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Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img]

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

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Love that Fairlane. I had a Lime Gold 67 500XL with a Cleveland/Toploader setup for power. Miss it every day.

On the Mustang, yeah, the 71 gives up some weight to the 68. But them heads though. Im picturing a 71 coupe with Edelbrock intake, three barrel Holley, 2 inch primary headers, and a massive GK solid roller. I'm a die hard Windsor guy, but there's no arguing with the canted-valve stuff when it's breathing right. Using modern speed parts the inline valve wedge stuff can compete. Using only old school stuff? I dunno.

Boss 429? Ive ridden in true Day 2 Boss '9 and its a face-melter. They'll run if done right. Problem with the Ford Hemi stuff is paying the tab.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been &quot;massaged&quot; a bit...

Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit...

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Love that Fairlane. I had a Lime Gold 67 500XL with a Cleveland/Toploader setup for power. Miss it every day.

On the Mustang, yeah, the 71 gives up some weight to the 68. But them heads though. Im picturing a 71 coupe with Edelbrock intake, three barrel Holley, 2 inch primary headers, and a massive GK solid roller. I'm a die hard Windsor guy, but there's no arguing with the canted-valve stuff when it's breathing right. Using modern speed parts the inline valve wedge stuff can compete. Using only old school stuff? I dunno.

Boss 429? Ive ridden in true Day 2 Boss '9 and its a face-melter. They'll run if done right. Problem with the Ford Hemi stuff is paying the tab. </div></div>

'67 sounds like it was a sweet ride.

Boss 9 or 71 CJ 429 work best in FAST cars. With a relatively inexpensive stroker kit and a good OEM block, you can get close to 600 cubes. You're constrained by factory intake (ported of course), carb (massaged extensively), and exhaust manifolds (extrude honed), but you can still make some serious power and torque. A few years ago someone with a 429 CJ Mustang was the first person in the 9's in a F.A.S.T. car.

71 Sportsroof weights are around 3,650 for a 429 car; not great, but not as bad as you would think. Had 375 hp and 450 ft/lbs to move it around. Looks like around 3,300 lbs for a 68 CJ Mustang, with the 428 rated at 335 hp/440 ft lbs. I'm still going with the 68 as the better car, but I think it's close.

Scott

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been &quot;massaged&quot; a bit...

Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit...

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Now you guys are really dragging out the classics ... COOL!!! TAZ