Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?

[Jeff H]

But if that L89 conv has a fake protect-o-plate, then isn't that now fraudulent? Then the car is being intentionally misrepresented. I personally think it's a great car that was built really well, but it doesn't appear that it is a genuine L89 car.

[69L89396]

I think the only thing that is fraudulent is having to do with the VIN, be it right or wrong.

I don't really see the goverment getting involved with the details like the drive train in a car as to the POP. It is up to the buyer to find out the facts himself before making a purchase.

As long as all these cars are bringing the kind of money they are demanding from the seller, be prepared to see lots more of this.
I predict we will see allot of more NEW COPO's, and all the big block Camaros come into the market. The buyers are out there whating to purchase these type of cars. As long as they are there, so will be the clones. I predict the clones will get even better as time goes on and make it almost impossable to tell the difference. As the price on these cars increases, it makes it easier to invest the money to make a clone.

The only way to hold this down is to start a VIN list for people to go to.

[paul1969]

Dear CamaroKing,

I just spent over an hour and a half typing an extremely nasty response to your post directed at me. I've decided not to post it, but rather, to collect my thoughts and clear this up. I hope that you too can learn something from both our actions. I took the time to read over my reply very carefully. Here's what I came up with: I was wrong about the date that I went to see the ZL-1. It was in no way an intentional mistake. I have come to the conclusion that I have a terrible sense of time and how fast it passes. My observation of the car and the tags has not changed. I did see the orange SS big-block in the paint shop at the same time I saw the ZL-1. My point was to show that the car was being offered as a real SS big-block even though the numbers were incorrect (X-11 code on the tag). As far as the black Z-28 RS on the showroom floor. I did see that 3-4 weeks ago. It was being offered at $38,900. I looked it over briefly and came to the conclusion that for the price, the workmanship on the resto was very poor for such a high asking price and I also doubted the car as being a true Z (my opinion) which remains the same as in the previous post. If it wasn't there when you visited, it must have been sold. You are correct when you stated that I did not know what to look for on the convertible. Kurt mentioned that earlier in the post. Thank You, I learned something new. As for the black COPO you speak of, it wasn't there when I visited, but then again you never stated when you were there. I did however see a 69 Yenko clone (yellow/black) for $32,000 and change. That has probably been sold as well. If I seems as though I am a bit biased at times towards this specific dealer and the cars being sold, it may be because I myself have seen and heard (in person) some of the BS. I won't get into it, but I am aware of it. I still however like to visit, just to glance over the cars and maybe even do a little daydreaming. I do not agree with the practice, but will leave it to the authorities to do the right thing. I must admit, but since becoming a new member on this site (yesterday), I can't seem to stop thinking about just how nasty people can really be towards people they don't even know. I've been on Camaros.net for quite some time now and have never been approached this way. I do all I can to help the fellow enthusiast. I might not have a Yenko or Baldwin and I might not be able to decode tags and broadcast sheets in a single glance, but I'm not some guy that pretends that he has a barn full of priceless muscle and knows everything about them. I currently own three 69 Camaros and have just finished my first resto-upgrade. I spent ten years on my first resto and have the gray hair,empty wallet, burnt eardrum (from using the torches), metal slivers in the eye (grinder),broken finger (lifting the body), a nervous breakdown (rescued by Prozac) and a marriage that was pressed to the outermost limits possible and even to this day (JUST TO NAME A FEW). I've earned my right to join the devoted Camaro owners group. I will make mistakes like most other people too. This will be the first year that I can attend car shows with a finished product and hopefully meet up with some of you and learn some more about my favorite hobby. Thanks for the warm welcome, Paul

[Stefano]

Welcome Paul,will you share your Prozac?

[COPO PETE]

Paul, welcome to the site and thanks for gathering your thoughts before responding. Your a better man for it!
Peter

[Steve Shauger]

Ownership history is a critical piece to determining a cars pedigree. The more research you do, the better the picture you get of the car.
The L89 convert was done very well, and would fool most knowlegeable collectors. I forwarded the information I knew, with the owners name who paid to have the car cloned and of the shop that did the work to Future Classics , but they were unable to verify the information.

I was looking to purchase an L89 coupe a few years ago, but before I made the deal I searched and found the second owner. What was being sold as an original drive train car, was not because the second owner blew a hole in the side of the block in 1977 and replaced it.

[Edited by paceme (03-19-2002 at 04:10 PM).]

[Denis]

How exactly does one burn an eardrum with a torch? Maybe the wife was holding the torch at the time?

[TMagda]

This dealer seems to be selling tons of cars, regardless of his reputation on the web. As time passes and they change hands a few times who will remember where they actually came from. I wonder who is buying all of these cars? I would think anyone in the hobby would know about this site as well as all of the other literature on how to identify certain models. I have been living vicariously through everyone here and at camaros.net while I save for my Camaro. I feel I have learned enough to select a ligit car, however I will be sure to ask for loads of help when that day comes.

[Kurt S]

Umm, I did the ear burn trick once. Was blowing out an exhaust manifolt on a car so I could put a new bolt in. One spark went in my ear. That hurt, as did the bigger one that went down my sleeve........
How to exit underneath a car very quickly.

Welcome Paul!

[Tim F]

Kurt, I did the same thing Mig welding an exhaust. The spark bounced off my neck and down the eardrum an made a Loud sizzle. I came flyin outta there like an inchworm on fire. Ive worn earplugs when welding ever since. Tim.