69 Camaro Body in the Crate

[rpoz11]

In California, a non original issued chassis gets an assigned DMV tag that represents a VIN for a frame, for example.
Shouldn't each and every one of these shells be assigned a permanent ID # that D.O.T can reference to prior to the release of these?
A HD frame made aftermarket can get one, every COBRA aftermerket body should have one; why wouldnt the US Gov't insist on enforcing a numbering system that can be used in a database for each and everyone of the units being brought into the US?

For example, a friend just purchased a remanufactured Farm Tractor, it had serial #'s present on the unit and was allowed US entry! A pefectly simple and useful system to keep records on the such.
Law Enforcement would have a COW if they had to establish this built car in the event of a drug raid, to identify this shell with an original GM/D.O.T. assigned but unable to locate the correct VIN locations behind the heater, frame, and other applicable areas!
This is not the end of the world on these shells!
Something is going to have to happen on assigning ID numberings for every one of these units prior to public release, or liability will be beyond comprhension(sp) in the event of a serious situation arising!

Look, GM was put into the position to assign the numbering system that we know of it today; Our US Gov't wouldnt allow GM to build chassis' without proper authorization! Why would OUR Gov't not do this with these, even now????????

It's one thing to stamp out the panels , sections,etc individually; it's another thing to assemble all seperate stampings into a shell such as these where most of us dont have an assmbly line to do so, thus FORD, GM Chrysler, etc etc etc.....
Where is the line drawn?

[Mark_C]

According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't each and every one of these shells be assigned a permanent ID # that D.O.T can reference to prior to the release of these?

[/ QUOTE ]

The completed shells have an "ID" number stamped in four different locations.


Rick H.

[Belair62]

Bingo ! thats the kind of info people will need in the future...along with the areas of different manufacturing techniques.

[JTH74]

They are supposed to be releasing the coupe the same time as the SEMA show or shortly after.

[musclecarjohn]

[ QUOTE ]
They are supposed to be releasing the coupe the same time as the SEMA show or shortly after.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I'm waiting to see...

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a Federal or State statute that you can refer us to that codifies this?

[Pantera]

I can see this is a bag of worms and I am glad that I am not going to be one that will be caught up in it.

This has the potential for disaster as each state has a different way to look at this. I know if you remove a Vin # around here you better not get caught putting it on something else. Even if it is the original car it came off of. You could get a couple of years to study your mistake courtesy of the state.

The is no difinative fed law that will allow it to be done on a complete body. The problem with Fed law is each person/state can intertept it the way that fits thier need best.

What will you do if when you replace the entire body you become liable for EPA, crash tests, smog, and all the other crappy rules that the goverment imposes on the new car builders.

This is not just a "Repair Part" but a entire safety structure of a auto and in essense it will wind up a "NEW AUTO"!!!! Then what if the feds deem it needs all the Goverment crap including crash testing and all that sorta crap. Big $$$$$$$ I would hate to have that much tied up in a car and have that come back to haunt me 5/10 years down the line. If you sold it and had already spent the money, then where would you be?


Pantera

[Mark_C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a Federal or State statute that you can refer us to that codifies this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Third page of this thread, top reply by me:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...0/fpart/3/vc/1

Heres the entire section dealing with VIN tampering, and the referenced defintions section from that post.

US Code Title 18 Section 511: Note Sections (B),(C), and (D) of Paragrah (2)

Section 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

(a) A person who -
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters anidentification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part;
or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years,
or both.
(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are -
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by -
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.
(c) As used in this section, the term -
(1) ''identification number'' means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;
(2) ''motor vehicle'' has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;
(3) ''motor vehicle demolisher'' means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;
(4) ''motor vehicle scrap processor'' means a person -
(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;
(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and
(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;
but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.
(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term ''tampers with'' includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.

Definitions of "Motor Vehicle" per Section 32101 of Title 49 referenced above:

(7) ''motor vehicle'' means a vehicle driven or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways, but does not include a vehicle operated only on a rail line.

(10) ''passenger motor vehicle'' means a motor vehicle with
motive power designed to carry not more than 12 individuals, but does not include -
(A) a motorcycle; or
(B) a truck not designed primarily to carry its operator or passengers.

(11) ''passenger motor vehicle equipment'' means -
(A) a system, part, or component of a passenger motor vehicle as originally made;
(B) a similar part or component made or sold for replacement or improvement of a system, part, or component, or as an accessory or addition to a passenger motor vehicle; or
(C) a device made or sold for use in towing a passenger motor vehicle.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not just a "Repair Part" but a entire safety structure of a auto and in essense it will wind up a "NEW AUTO"!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

After finding a rusted out hulk of a Yenko, BM or other Super Car (ID'd by paperwork, tags etc..) and then spend 10's of thousands of dollars rounding up the correct parts, NOS metal, correctly dated driveline (or rebuild what is there), then spend $100k or more restoring it to concours level, don't you essentially end up with a "new car"??

To be honest I don't care how people restore their cars, it's not my place to tell them. In my opinion they can restore it the way they want and if they can sleep at night and live with it so be it.

Rick H.