Pontiac may be dead by monday.. - Page 4

**markinnaples** · #31 04-25-2009, 07:22 AM

Give me a break. GM has made Shiite for the last 20 years, and you want to compare the latest and greatest GM vehicle made to Japanese vehicles that have had excellent quality for over 30 years.

I love America, more than most, but you have to admit the American cars since about 1974 to 2005 have sucked.

My wife has a 2000 Grand Prix that is the biggest POS ever. Now, you can't expect to produce crap for 20+ years and then win some people over in two or three years.

GM and Chrysler need to go bankrupt, renegotiate the union contracts and make the best quality cars in the world, again. Then, maybe they will come back and be profitable.

**BJCHEV396** · #32 04-25-2009, 08:47 AM

No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

**Late BrakeU2** · #33 04-25-2009, 09:29 AM

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No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

**firstgenaddict** · #34 04-25-2009, 03:58 PM

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My understanding was the reason the Camaro got killed in 2002 was simply to get out of the Union contract in Canada.

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That's what I remember as well... CAW

Now as far as quality... I had a 97 Toyota 4runner for 11 years and 200,000k miles... all of the interior parts were the same as when I bought it, everything worked inside and out with less than stellar maintenaince and being beat to death. My father has a 99 Suburban with half as many miles... the interior parts rattle, the doors are sagging, all kinds of things don't work and he maintains his vehicles to the Nth degree... just my experiences...

For a HD truck... Powerstroke diesel... For an everyday vehicle HONDA or TOYOTA.... Muscle... another story I'm GM all the way!

camarojoe · #35 04-25-2009, 06:52 PM

In regards to the 97-02 Camaro/Firebird...bottom line is that if the car was making them any money they wouldn't have killed it. Whatever the reason it wasn't making them any money can be argued all day, but the fact remains that if it was profitable it would not have been killed. I worked part time at a Pontiac dealer in 98-02, and Trans Ams/Firebirds sat on the lot a LONG time before they were ever sold, and half the time they were just dealer traded to someone else. Sure they were cool, but no one actually bought any. Same fate will come of the new Camaro within a few years I'm afraid....if it even makes it that long.

I'm a die hard Chevy/GM guy, and have been all my life, but I'd buy a 6 speed Challenger R/T tomorrow if I had the coin. To say this car is not direct competition with the Camaro and Mustang is rediculous. Not only is it competition for unbiased consumers, but its also cool enough to convert lifelong Ford/Chevy guys to go Mopar.

Dayton · #36 04-25-2009, 07:48 PM

I read where GM is going to idle their plants for 9 weeks this summer. The employees will draw unemployment. The difference between unemployment and the employees regular paycheck will be made up by GM, What the hell?? No wonder this company is circling the drain. Once upon a time, GM was the largest corporation in the World!

The Dude · #37 04-25-2009, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Give me a break. GM has made Shiite for the last 20 years, and you want to compare the latest and greatest GM vehicle made to Japanese vehicles that have had excellent quality for over 30 years.

I love America, more than most, but you have to admit the American cars since about 1974 to 2005 have sucked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Show me a 1979 Toyota or Honda still on the road. 30+ years of excellent quality? The Japanese didnt always have top notch cars. The first imports were obscenely slow, underpowered and rotted if sneezed on. What they did have was low cost and good milage. They steadily improved on it until they took over the market. But dont say that for 30 years they have been great, they were shitcans for a long time.

I can go on for hours listing great cars built by Detroit from 1974 to 2005.

The Dude · #38 04-25-2009, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I read where GM is going to idle their plants for 9 weeks this summer. The employees will draw unemployment. The difference between unemployment and the employees regular paycheck will be made up by GM, What the hell?? No wonder this company is circling the drain. Once upon a time, GM was the largest corporation in the World!

[/ QUOTE ]

Know, what THEY STILL ARE!! THEY STILL MAKE THE MOST VEHICLES IN THE WORLD TODAY!!!

Toyota has temporarily idled many of their plants here in the US. Know what they did with the workforce? PAID THEM NOT TO WORK. Yes, when the San Antonio TX plant was idled for three months last year Toyota paid the workers not to work. In Japanese culture it is forbidden to lay off a permanent team member. You are employed for life, no matter how bad the market or economy gets. Imagine the UAW demamding that here in the states.

The Dude · #39 04-25-2009, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My understanding was the reason the Camaro got killed in 2002 was simply to get out of the Union contract in Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I remember as well... CAW

Now as far as quality... I had a 97 Toyota 4runner for 11 years and 200,000k miles... all of the interior parts were the same as when I bought it, everything worked inside and out with less than stellar maintenaince and being beat to death. My father has a 99 Suburban with half as many miles... the interior parts rattle, the doors are sagging, all kinds of things don't work and he maintains his vehicles to the Nth degree... just my experiences...

For a HD truck... Powerstroke diesel... For an everyday vehicle HONDA or TOYOTA.... Muscle... another story I'm GM all the way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Read up on the Toyota Tacoma frame recall. Toyota bought back every Tacoma they made because the frames were falling out of them due to corrosion. Nice quality!!!!!

My F150 has 100,000 miles and is 15 years old. And it looks like a brand new truck. Whats that mean? Nothing. As your examples mean, nothing.

**92646** · #40 04-25-2009, 10:59 PM

There is such a fine line between success and failure in the car business. The domestic manufacture's problems did not come about because of one car line being discontinued or one group of people. This happened because of a bunch of bad decisions and missed opportunities over the years. All car makers are capable of making bad decisions. Mercedes Benz made cars that kept having tires blow out because their cars weighed too much in the 90's. I helped open a Lexus dealer that most of our sales came from loyal Cadillac customers because they were tired of all the problems they had with their cars including the 4.1 aluminum V8s, 5.7 diesels and 4,6,8 motors breaking. Just a few years ago Toyota rolled out their biggest Tundra ever with the 5.7 V8 as gas was heading to $5.00 a gallon (with a TRD supercharger you can get 500hp at the crank). It is a shame that Pontiac may go away but from what I have read GM is having their problems because they kept trying to sell trucks when the market should be buying cars. It is kind of ironic but Pontiac has only had cars in their line up for as long as I can remember.
Mark Sheppard

Dedicated to the Promotion and Preservation of American Muscle Cars, Dealer built Supercars and COPO cars.